OSDev.org

hi,

i'm a developer, i know windows, bsd and linux and i've seen mac os x. now i want to try to "develop" an own system. but i do not like to develop a kernel, i want to use software like firefox, thunderbird, gaim, i want that DVD player runs and i can hear music.

thats a lot

now my question (s)

i want to use the linux kernel but i do not want to see dirs like /usr /boot i do not want to install a textmode userinterface ? i want to start immideate to the X Window System. i read a lot of stuff e.g. in the LFS Documentation but there are no answers.

thanks for comments.

ckj

Short answer: Add xdm to your startup scripts using rc-updateIt will automatically launch the graphical login manager for you (assuming you have configured the DISPLAYMANAGER properly).

And no, you cannot remove the text interface from Linux, it is part of the kernel and probably inseperable from it (unless you want to rewrite it). You can hide it during startup using a splash screen (framebuffer splash) but your kernel will need to have been compiled with the necessary support. You will need to install fbsplash, splashutils and a few splash themes, create an initrd and change the kernel boot parameters. http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_fbsplash

...which means your user will be confronted with the text mode interface he is not familiar with in the most unconvenient moments, i.e. when the system stops functioning correctly.

Covering up an ugly core with a good-looking, intuitive and failsave GUI doesn't work. Unless you're Apple, of course. ;D

ckj wrote: i'm a developer, i know windows, bsd and linux and i've seen mac os x. now i want to try to "develop" an own system. but i do not like to develop a kernel, i want to use software like firefox, thunderbird, gaim, i want that DVD player runs and i can hear music.

Hmm, to clear that a bit: do you mean you don't want to write a single line of code and use the linux kernel along with the GNU OS, or do you just mean you want to utilize the linux kernel, and replace the system above it (everything in userspace, except some high level apps)?

cheers Joe

It sounds like you want to create a Linux distro.

hi,

the comparision with apple is the right one. is it possible to develop a system like os x with linux and gnu sources?

@joe: i want to develop lines of code, but first i want to use the existing code. and i want to reduce the number of needed packages. the result should be an easy to install, easy to use end user system for noncommercial users. the system do not need hundreds of speicial mods and drivers. one FS for hard disk is enough. one architecture (intel) is enough. one window manager ....

i think it's more than a new distro but perhaps it could help to get some major decisions.

my next step is a linux using T2 http://www.t2-project.org/

i believe its possible!

ckj

use the best - trash the rest

ckj wrote: is it possible to develop a system like os x with linux and gnu sources?

That is what mainstream distros like SuSE are trying for several years now...

i have another view to the SuSe distro. everything is possible. everthing could be installed. - but you cannot install just "the system" like you can install win xp or mac os x - i think the ubuntu people are closer.

my theory is that it is time to leave the i-have-more-packages hype and reduce it to a basic system. beginning with the kernel you look at each lib, package or everything other and you have to decide wether the system will need it or not. it is also time to leave the standard if the standard is annoying (hope thats the right translation for "st?ren")

as a example look at the FSH (file system hirarchy) its old and compatible but its not innovative and usable. just an example.

i hope my view is a little bit clearer.

ckj

If by "File system hierarchy", you mean the concept of having a root directory and all other filesystems mounted under it, ie.
/
/mnt/floppy
/mnt/cdrom
/usr
/home

That is also part of the kernel, again inseperable, and also possibly part of POSIX (UNIX compliance specification) without which you would not be able to run Linux programs without rewriting every one of them. The ones that work on Windows were specifically designed to handle how Windows does the drive management, it is not simply something you can change on a whim.

The only thing that makes this less usable then Windows' method is that people are used to the concept of A:/C:/D: but otherwise it is not significantly different.

ckj wrote: my theory is that it is time to leave the i-have-more-packages hype and reduce it to a basic system. beginning with the kernel you look at each lib, package or everything other and you have to decide wether the system will need it or not.

Ah, but Linux is used for so many different things! Desktop users will want a X Window / desktop installed, while server admins couldn't care less - and that's only the beginning...

Note that e.g. Gentoo Linux (and other source-based distros like LFS) give you instructions on how to set up a basic system, and then provide you with the mechanisms to extent that system to your liking.

If you create a "distro" that takes the "basic" system further (e.g. by adding X Window, KDE, and Mozilla), every decision of yours as to what is the "basic" system will be double-guessed. Some will prefer Gnome, others will prefer Konqueror, and they'll flame you for not giving them the option to do so.

Believe me, the Linux horde is a strange people when it comes to "standards"....

@AR FHS is a part of LSB (i think) http://www.pathname.com/fhs/

i have no problem with the concept itself but i do not think that mandatory pathnames like /usr /home /root /var ... are the future.

why not /system or /System or /Syst?me or /user /Benutzer /utilisateur in the choosen language?

that's what i meant.

ckj

ckj wrote: i have no problem with the concept itself but i do not think that mandatory pathnames like /usr /home /root /var ... are the future.

They aren't mandatory. You can change them to anything you like.

It's going to be one hell of a job to do, but it isn't mandatory. It's just convenient.

[satire]
En op het punt van standaarden, waarom praten we hier allemaal engels? Je kunt net zo goed je eigen taal praten, geen standaard nodig. Met dingen als babelfish.altavista.com moet je dit ook kunnen lezen.
[/satire]

The point behind standards and conventions is that things become simpler to do because you don't have to worry about people you don't know yet (since you can assume they'll understand the standard too).

ckj wrote:why not /system or /System or /Syst?me or /user /Benutzer /utilisateur in the choosen language?

As an additional alias, fine. But

1) an application must be able to access system and user files under some known handle, and unless you want to force app developers to ship a different version for every locale, you have to have some "generic" name for /user, /Benutzer and /utilisateur.

2) you want to use "software like firefox, thunderbird, gaim" - those expect the traditional file structure...

that's what i meant.

ckj

Solar wrote: ... others will prefer Konqueror, and they'll flame you for not giving them the option to do so.

Believe me, the Linux horde is a strange people when it comes to "standards"....

i don't want a system for "the linux user" i want a system for the man which is unable to programm his video recorder. and the system will give the user only one option for a basic application

one email client
one browser
one Instant Messenger
one music box
one dvd player

sounds boring? perhaps! but i could also be a factor of success

ckj

Hey,

This is an interesting discussion, I like the idea of one piece of software for each purpose, in fact I envision this for my own OS, I think that instead of 10 open source, community based programs that do basically the same thing, there should be one on which all of the community works on, there is no need of choice for the user. The community as a whole could build the software to do everything needed, this would greatly simplify, well everything...

I guess the hardest part will be getting people to agree to it...

This is just my humble opinion of course...

Cheers