On false beliefs

[bzt]

and that God will soon step in to fix the resulting mess we live in.

I found it extremely dangerous to wait for a divine entity to clean up our mess. They will never come, because men created God and not the other way around. Humanity believed and still believes in many different Gods. Christianity's God is not what most people believe in. There are lot more people believing in Hinduism, or in moral philosophies like taoism. Besides, even the Bible says:

He who works his land will have abundant food, but he who chases fantasies lacks judgment.

Or, with a more commonly known phrase,

God helps those who help themselves

Cheers,
bzt

[nullplan]

While I do agree with you, bzt, I have frequently found it unproductive to argue religion with a believer, since they will not change their mind (forbidden on pain of a fate worse than death) and if they had an argument to convince unbelievers like me, they would have given it already, instead of waiting for the 256th time this argument comes around. The argument itself is going to be boring, since the positions, the evidence, and the claims themselves haven't changed in the centuries since Thomas Aquinas, so everything has already been hashed out thousands of times.

But yeah, when I saw eekee's post, I thought: Christians have been convinced Christ will return within their lifetimes for the past two millennia. And somehow that hasn't happened yet. I think it is safe to say, if your date is two thousand years late, you probably have been stood up. I do remember one guy in America was convinced the world was ending on a specific day, so he sold everything he had to pay for advertisement for that day. When the time came and we were all still here, he, a sixty year old man, found himself penniless. Relying on the magical sky-daddy to fix your mess is just pushing responsibility away from yourself. Or to put this another way: One pair of working hands has already accomplished more than a thousand clasped in prayer.

[bzt]

I have frequently found it unproductive to argue religion with a believer, since they will not change their mind

You're probably right. That's why I quoted the Bible as well, because I'm hoping if nothing else, that makes sense to them. Waiting for a deus ex machina to save the day is no good for nobody. Believer or not, we should take matters in our hands if we want to stop this pandemic (the original post was in that topic).

For example I don't think believing that "the Ganges is a sacred water therefore must be free of corona, so it is okay to drink it" helps anyone. Same way we know from Iran's failure that temple or not, licking the bars of sacred places do spread the infection, no matter what believers think about God's place. In times like these blind faith and religion is dangerous and can kill many people.

Cheers,
bzt

[StudlyCaps]

Not to be glib, but a "false belief" is in the eye of the beholder, and I have a belief that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[bzt]

Not to be glib, but a "false belief" is in the eye of the beholder, and I have a belief that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it. By "false belief" I meant things like sacred water can't be contaguous, or that a devine being will solve our problems over night.

Cheers,
bzt

[StudlyCaps]

Not to be glib, but a "false belief" is in the eye of the beholder, and I have a belief that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it. By "false belief" I meant things like sacred water can't be contaguous, or that a devine being will solve our problems over night.

My point is that although we know they are almost certainly wrong, they are inherently not falsifiable. At least, they are not falsifiable within the belief systems of the believers themselves. I can't prove to a Christian that Jesus isn't coming any more than I can prove to a flat earther that the world is round. They are equally sure that they are right as I am that they are wrong.

My second point is that most of us have beliefs that run counter to mainstream consensus. You have posted on this very forum beliefs you have that most people consider "crackpot", I have my own beliefs that run counter to mainstream ideas. neither of us are going to be dissuaded simply because most people think we are wrong. When it comes to beliefs that cannot be objectively evaluated, "false" is not a useful word to use.

[bzt]

My point is that although we know they are almost certainly wrong, they are inherently not falsifiable. At least, they are not falsifiable within the belief systems of the believers themselves. I can't prove to a Christian that Jesus isn't coming any more than I can prove to a flat earther that the world is round. They are equally sure that they are right as I am that they are wrong.

I see what you mean. Yes, if someone refuses scientific facts, those cannot be helped. I know many people think they have the right to believe in whatever they want. Sadly that's wrong and nature won't show mercy for the fools. And God forgive me for saying this, but I think they deserve the Darwin award.

My second point is that most of us have beliefs that run counter to mainstream consensus. You have posted on this very forum beliefs you have that most people consider "crackpot", I have my own beliefs that run counter to mainstream ideas.

Now I see what was the misunderstanding. I very rarely post beliefs, and when I do so, I always add "IMHO" or something similar. Most of the time I post things that can be proven.

neither of us are going to be dissuaded simply because most people think we are wrong. When it comes to beliefs that cannot be objectively evaluated, "false" is not a useful word to use.

Yeah, but there are certain things that can be objectively evaluated, for example that the sacred water contains virus the same way as any other water.

Anyway, this conversation went further than I originally wanted. All I wanted to say is, don't let yourself be fooled, use your gray thing in your head, and always question everything. Scientific method is the only way to survive on the long run.

Cheers,
bzt

[GeGuNa]

I have frequently found it unproductive to argue religion with a believer, since they will not change their mind

You're probably right. That's why I quoted the Bible as well, because I'm hoping if nothing else, that makes sense to them. Waiting for a deus ex machina to save the day is no good for nobody. Believer or not, we should take matters in our hands if we want to stop this pandemic (the original post was in that topic).

For example I don't think believing that "the Ganges is a sacred water therefore must be free of corona, so it is okay to drink it" helps anyone. Same way we know from Iran's failure that temple or not, licking the bars of sacred places do spread the infection, no matter what believers think about God's place. In times like these blind faith and religion is dangerous and can kill many people.

Cheers,
bzt

pandemic << Hello , this is not pandemic it's only propaganda , in my country only 6 (death) they are more than 60 years old , what is this mean ? this is mean h1n1 was 50 % killable thing than this corona but (we haven't corona antidote but we have h1n1 virus antidote but h1n1 was more killable than covid ), corona was propaganded by media , even sars wars 100 times killable thing than covid-19, corona virus was here but media spreading gossips , this is a ordinary virus , even with ordinary pneumonia in around the world were 3 000 000 deaths in one year , these days we heard only Who died , his died because of corona she's died because of corona , in these days we didn't have cancer / heart attacks and thousand more natural things , these days when someone is dying they said " he died cuz of corona " but corona is a ordinary virus , bill gates wants to depopulation people to 1 billion or more less , bill gates is bastard , don't let anybody vaccined to you ,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhxjqAt779A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq8ZC0ow-CY

[GeGuNa]

I have frequently found it unproductive to argue religion with a believer, since they will not change their mind

You're probably right. That's why I quoted the Bible as well, because I'm hoping if nothing else, that makes sense to them. Waiting for a deus ex machina to save the day is no good for nobody. Believer or not, we should take matters in our hands if we want to stop this pandemic (the original post was in that topic).

For example I don't think believing that "the Ganges is a sacred water therefore must be free of corona, so it is okay to drink it" helps anyone. Same way we know from Iran's failure that temple or not, licking the bars of sacred places do spread the infection, no matter what believers think about God's place. In times like these blind faith and religion is dangerous and can kill many people.

Cheers,
bzt

pandemic << Hello , this is not pandemic it's only propaganda , in my country only 6 (death) they are more than 60 years old , what is this mean ? this is mean h1n1 was 50 % killable thing than this corona but (we haven't corona antidote but we have h1n1 virus antidote but h1n1 was more killable than covid ), corona was propaganded by media , even sars wars 100 times killable thing than covid-19, corona virus was here but media spreading gossips , this is a ordinary virus , even with ordinary pneumonia in around the world were 3 000 000 deaths in one year , these days we heard only Who died , his died because of corona she's died because of corona , in these days we didn't have cancer / heart attacks and thousand more natural things , these days when someone is dying they said " he died cuz of corona " but corona is a ordinary virus , bill gates wants to depopulation people to 1 billion or more less , bill gates is bastard , don't let anybody vaccined to you ,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhxjqAt779A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq8ZC0ow-CY

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... t-humanity <<< petition against bill gates , if you don't believe me believe to white house

[bzt]

I kindly ask everybody to avoid conteos. Please limit posts to facts that can be proven (a deep-fake video in which a rich man says he wants to depopulate Earth does not count as evidence). Thanks.

I also raised my concerns about how this pandemic is overrated to abuse power and surpress human rights, however this is not the subject of this topic. If you want to know, the first thing my gov did when it got unlimited, unchecked power due to corona, was to give land to their comrades, einstand companies, and increase their own wage (not for the workers in the health sector). Nothing to help stopping the disease per se, in short. This tells everything that is to be told.

Cheers,
bzt

[GeGuNa]

when they will come to you and force to take vaccines and then you will remember me , what i told to you , like they did in the past they forced to take vaccines (and after that 100 000 000 people died after that when they take those vaccines one hudred years ago with h1n1 ) god bless

[DavidCooper]

when they will come to you and force to take vaccines and then you will remember me , what i told to you , like they did in the past they forced to take vaccines (and after that 100 000 000 people died after that when they take those vaccines one hudred years ago with h1n1 ) god bless

You may not realise it, but those same vaccines have been in use in all the rich countries too, and we'd like to eliminate the need for our children to have them, but that can't happen until those diseases have been eliminated worldwide so that they don't keep coming back. Polio is nearly gone, but there are a few places where it clings on because people are avoiding the vaccine. Part of the problem is that the United States has stupidly used some of the doctors as spies on a few occasions, leading to justified suspicion, but the solution for that would be for the people who fear being spied on to take control of the vaccination programs themselves. Gates isn't trying to kill anyone - he's not your enemy.

[GeGuNa]

when they will come to you and force to take vaccines and then you will remember me , what i told to you , like they did in the past they forced to take vaccines (and after that 100 000 000 people died after that when they take those vaccines one hudred years ago with h1n1 ) god bless

You may not realise it, but those same vaccines have been in use in all the rich countries too, and we'd like to eliminate the need for our children to have them, but that can't happen until those diseases have been eliminated worldwide so that they don't keep coming back. Polio is nearly gone, but there are a few places where it clings on because people are avoiding the vaccine. Part of the problem is that the United States has stupidly used some of the doctors as spies on a few occasions, leading to justified suspicion, but the solution for that would be for the people who fear being spied on to take control of the vaccination programs themselves. Gates isn't trying to kill anyone - he's not your enemy.

yeap yeap he's not trying to kill everyone maybe 80% percent of humanity , if you don't believe me so you will se what's is the truth , you have your will , i have mine , so we will se who is telling truth ...

[GeGuNa]

when they will come to you and force to take vaccines and then you will remember me , what i told to you , like they did in the past they forced to take vaccines (and after that 100 000 000 people died after that when they take those vaccines one hudred years ago with h1n1 ) god bless

You may not realise it, but those same vaccines have been in use in all the rich countries too, and we'd like to eliminate the need for our children to have them, but that can't happen until those diseases have been eliminated worldwide so that they don't keep coming back. Polio is nearly gone, but there are a few places where it clings on because people are avoiding the vaccine. Part of the problem is that the United States has stupidly used some of the doctors as spies on a few occasions, leading to justified suspicion, but the solution for that would be for the people who fear being spied on to take control of the vaccination programs themselves. Gates isn't trying to kill anyone - he's not your enemy.

plus, answer me if there aren't covid antitode why they started vaccination of humans in the usa ? answer me ? we don't have antidote so what's is this vaccines are in reality ?

[iansjack]

The title of this thread is very appropriate.