OSDev.org

Hey all,
I've been a follower of OSDev for quite a long time, up until now as a guest. I (we) have been working for awhile on a new OS, and I am writing this post to invite you guys to check out our first build.

We're calling it Minoca OS, and we wrote it entirely from scratch. It's got some cool features like a kernel debugger, real-time profiling, SMP, ACPI, USB, and a driver model. The OS is capable of compiling itself, and runs GCC and even Python (both included in the download!) It runs on x86 and ARM, but currently only x86 is out.

You can try Minoca OS at http://www.minocacorp.com/download/ . We need folks to hammer on it, so bonus points if you can find a bug. What I mean is, please break it. We might ask you to send us a debugger remote if you come up with something interesting, which is straightforward with our debugger.

Additionally, we'd be happy to discuss the design and implementation of some of our more unusual features, like the kernel debugger, profiler, ACPI support, boot process, ARM support, building Python, etc. These features (especially the debugger) might be helpful to you on your own OS development quest.

The two lead developers on the project are ex kernel devs from a large commercial OS that shall remain nameless. Please, ask us questions.

Anyway give Minoca OS a try, and let us know how it goes. If you've got a private message or I don't seem to be responding to something here and need a bump, my email is evan at the same domain as the website.

-Evan

That eerily resembles debugging the Windows kernel in kd/Windbg...

Oh, I see, someone decided to borrow some ideas, terminology and APIs from Windows.
But why?

Why isn't it open source? It seems like it is a UNIX-like OS.

I feel like if we had been writing a text editor those previous two posts would have been equivalent to "Hey, it looks just like vi. Hey, it looks just like emacs".

We drew our inspiration across the entirety of the last 25+ years of OS development. That's one of the beautiful things about starting from scratch, you can benefit from all the hindsight of everything that came before.

@alexfru Did you get a chance to play around with the debugger? Are there any commands or functions that you use frequently that you were dismayed to see were not there? We implemented support for the commands and functions we use constantly, but I doubt we've completely covered the working set.

@ExeTwezz The question of open source is a good one. We're currently debating this internally (feel free to add your two cents). Some aspects of the OS are open source, including several of our drivers and applications (they're in the SDK). We've also published all of the modifications we've made to third party applications like GCC and Python, per GPL. Is there a particular component you were interesting in cracking open, or was it a general question?

Evan wrote: We drew our inspiration across the entirety of the last 25+ years of OS development. That's one of the beautiful things about starting from scratch, you can benefit from all the hindsight of everything that came before.

Ah, that's how you got things looking similar to Windows.

Evan wrote: @alexfru Did you get a chance to play around with the debugger? Are there any commands or functions that you use frequently that you were dismayed to see were not there? We implemented support for the commands and functions we use constantly, but I doubt we've completely covered the working set.

Sorry, no, I didn't have an intention to try it out. I just looked at the above picture and read the info (including the APIs) on the website.

Nice work! Also thumbs up for the website & general appearance, thats what I miss from most projects around.

Just curious, why did you write your own debugger? Did you miss something in gdb or did you do it for fun?

Though I'm not sure if it makes sense to keep it closed source and then trying to sell it. Imho the only thing one can sell for such a product is support, keeping the product itself open and free. Maybe you could add some arguments - Why should you use MinocaOS? What is the advantage in comparison to widely used systems like Linux? Why should I pay for your proprietary system if I can use an open source one?

Evan wrote:@ExeTwezz The question of open source is a good one. We're currently debating this internally (feel free to add your two cents). Some aspects of the OS are open source, including several of our drivers and applications (they're in the SDK). We've also published all of the modifications we've made to third party applications like GCC and Python, per GPL. Is there a particular component you were interesting in cracking open, or was it a general question?

I thought it is a UNIX-like operating system, and the fact that they are open source, and your one isn't, intersted me. Anyway, I'm downloading the OS right now.

But I don't understand one thing. What does mean "Automatic resets" on the http://www.minocacorp.com/product/ page?

TBH, I come to this site for discussions about OS design and implementation, and related topics, rather than having an interest in beta-testing yet another new OS (and a proprietary one at that).

As has already been said, what do you offer over the multitude of available OSs?

@max Thanks for the kind words, they're much appreciated. We wrote our own debugger partially yes because we think the whole thing is pretty fun, but also because we thought we'd be more free to make it our own if we weren't tied to gdb. For instance, we can do real-time profiling from our debugger, meaning that you can execute a CPU-intensive operation and see the functions in the kernel bubble up (sort of like the "top" command, but with full function stacks). There's a screenshot on the website's product page.

Yep, we're thinking about the "support" business model, and as I mentioned above are debating open-sourcing the whole thing. I'd love to be able to speak to someone at a company who has made that business model work successfully (Red Hat comes to mind).

@Exetwezz ah I see. We've shot for "mostly-POSIX" compatibility, which explains much of the outward appearance you may have noticed, but the code is all from scratch. The automatic resets thing means the version of the OS on the website reboots itself every 3 days. We can potentially provide versions of the OS without the reboot if you've got a project you'd like to use it for.

@iansjack Yes, we do too, though we're hoping some folks here might enjoy poking around our OS given that there's an area of the forum dedicated to these sorts of announcements. We also like discussing design and implementation. If there's a feature we've done that people find interesting, we'd be happy to discuss the design of it.

Both max and iansjack have asked "why Minoca OS", and I'll take a stab at answering that. In addition to being a featherweight compared to the big boys, we're aiming to add value in three areas: power management, security, and serviceability. The kernel architecture, especially the kernel-driver interface, enables some very cool leaps forward in each of these areas which we think will give us an edge over the other guys. In other words, I think there's a lot to be gained from starting fresh. We're still working on some of these features, so the specifics are in flux, but that's where our head is at.

Evan wrote:The two lead developers on the project are ex kernel devs from a large commercial OS that shall remain nameless

Have you taken into account that the previous company might not like the new project? I do not know the facts but all I am saying that you must be careful with legal issues.

In general, your project looks good. I hope you will succeed, both commercially and technically. It is nice to see professional projects in this field.

Thanks for checking it out Antti. Thanks for the input too, we definitely take the legal aspects of our work seriously.

You guys seem to think like most of us (including me): that the good (new) operating systems will replace the bad (and old) ones. That's obviously not true (just take a look at the M$-guys). Sadly, the thing that really counts is marketing. No matter how good your OS from our OSdever perspective might be: nobody except for very few people will use it if your marketing is crap.

I don't want to discourage you in any ways, just keep that in mind.