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Hi,
I have taken some certification exams,But do they really help in judging a person?In my humble opnion the answer is no.Certification does help you learn many things but you are bound to forget many things after 2-3 months.Technologies keep on changing but it's the fundamentals that one should foucus on.

I really do not understand why some managers/companies perfer a certified candidate over an uncertified one.We live in a twisted imperfect world .What are your thoughts on certifications?Does it help?

{Please do excuse my poor english }

--Thomas

Yes they do.

If you learnt something, you'll also remember where you got that knowledge from. So if you do forget something, you know where to brush up your skills.

Certification? Are you meaning you sit an exam and if you score above a threshold they give you a certification? It sounds a lot like those commercials we have in South Australia that say "Fast track your career in IT and graduate in 3 months!" I think anything that easy to get may help you get a job in the short term, but the benefits will wear off as time passes or you wish to enter a slightly different area.

If you're talking about only a certification vs. having nothing, and they want someone immediately who can use a specific technology then it'll probably make some difference, and if it's only an exam that'll take a few hours of your time then I say go for it? But if you're talking about something you want to do long term as a career (vs. a job to support yourself while working towards another goal), then why not go the traditional route of a university degree. Who would you hire if you were down to two candidates and one was:
Highschool + 4 years Bachelor in Computer Science + 2 years Masters in Information Technology
or
Highschool + Passed IT Certification Exam

Hi,

I'm an optometrist, so my view is not from a computing perspective, but I have been on the "nice" side of the interview desk several times, so this may be of some value!

When we take on a non-clinical staff member, certificates should certainly have some value. In a clinical staff member, it's less easy to judge because my profession has mandatory CPD (and all clinicians are at least postgrads).

If (as an employer) I have some idea what the certificate course entails, I know that the candidate has at least met a certain standard on an official course. Not only that, but they have shown some dedication to a particular type of work in that they have bothered to obtain a certificate in the first place.

Another assumption that I would make about someone who has taken certification exams is that they want to improve themselves in the future. I would rate someone who has shown that they want to develop themselves much more highly than someone who has had opportunities to develop themselves but has not taken those opportunities. Obviously it is a bit more difficult judging this in someone who has only just left mainstream education, but we don't get many of that kind of applicant anyway.

Cheers,
Adam

MessiahAndrw wrote:Who would you hire if you were down to two candidates and one was:
Highschool + 4 years Bachelor in Computer Science + 2 years Masters in Information Technology
or
Highschool + Passed IT Certification Exam

I would at least have asked the university person about what he learnt and liked in his university days, or at least poll for the reputation of the university in question. There's a big difference between MIT and the Universiteit van Harderwijk...

Combuster wrote:

MessiahAndrw wrote:Who would you hire if you were down to two candidates and one was:
Highschool + 4 years Bachelor in Computer Science + 2 years Masters in Information Technology
or
Highschool + Passed IT Certification Exam

I would at least have asked the university person about what he learnt and liked in his university days, or at least poll for the reputation of the university in question. There's a big difference between MIT and the Universiteit van Harderwijk...

Have you ever read any of Joel's articles? He has said he has interviewed people *with* certifications and college degrees and that ton of people could not implement a simple recursive algorithm. In fact, he said there were a high number of people(as in, more than there should be) of people that could not properly write code for this:

Write a function that computes the area of a circle given the radius of the circle

(and with any language including psuedo code being acceptable)

I think it's from this that all employers should learn to not judge only from education. Sure, it may help(unfairly at times) to do a resume screening process on people that have no formal education just to cut down the thousands of applicants to a few hundred.. But really, I say both degrees and certifications can be completely useless... Now I'm not saying that about some place like MIT. I mean, there is seriously no way you could get a degree from that school without knowing what you are doing, but for certifications, it's never that way. All you have to do is memorize an API reference, and for the lesser-known college, you don't know if they are teaching students what they actually need to know and making sure they know what they need to.

So yea, if your an employer, please do us programmers and yourself a favor. Talk with applicants and make sure they know how to write a function to compute the area of a circle before you higher them. (it should be *trivial* to even fresh out of school graduates, or possibly even anyone who actually paid attention in their first programming class)

earlz wrote:Have you ever read any of Joel's articles?

I'm fairly certain I know who you are referring to here, but for the benefit of those who don't, can you please provide a link?

Hi,
I concur with earlz here.I have seen MCPD's struggling to find basic semantic errors in their C# code. In most interviews, all tests basically measure whether candidate can talk well or not. There is no real reason for me to take certification. Luckily in my company people are not judged on their certification . It’s just that completing certifications brought me a sense of satisfaction and in the ‘real world’ they do have a face value.
@Andrew: I do have a bachelor’s degree in Computer Science and Engineering from a good reputed university in my country. I do not have the luxury of 3 months’ time for a certification, my preparation time for most the certification exams is utmost 4 sleepless nights for reading the corresponding books.
{Please do excuse my poor English}
--Thomas

pcmattman wrote:

earlz wrote:Have you ever read any of Joel's articles?

I'm fairly certain I know who you are referring to here, but for the benefit of those who don't, can you please provide a link?

http://joelonsoftware.com

Yes but some certs are better than others.

Yes, they do count, but I wouldn't worry about it that much.

They do help you get a slight advantage over others in the case where a company has to pick from many applicants, but this happens quite rarely, at least in my country.

However, when it comes to interviews, and technical tests, certifications no longer count. It's what you have in your head that does.

IT certifications definitely help you keep abreast of various technologies and give certain weight to your CV. In fact, with competition for IT jobs increasing manifold, employers are likely to favor those who have competencies in various technologies. I would think certifications will give you an edge over your competitors in the job market. As far as changes in technology are concerned, it is up to you to keep yourself updated on the latest technologies.Computer degrees lay the groundwork and certifications provide an additional boost to your career in the field.

Certifications may help you get through the initial screening, and actually get a chance for a job interview. At that point, their usefulness ends.