Wait what? SWF is an open format!?

[earlz]

So I was doing some googling on FLV and happened upon http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/

So I guess a lot of us can't complain about Flash being a closed format now. Now it's just an open format without an open (good) implementation

[madeofstaples]

One reason for the lack of excitement over the project in the free software world is that it omits "huge amounts" of information needed for a complete implementation of Flash. In particular, Savoye points out that the announcement contains no mention of the Real Time Messaging Protocol(RTMP) that is required for the Flash media server. Nor does it mention the Sorenson Spark Codec that is used for video encoding in Flash 6 and 7, and remains the choice of some users still for Flash video because other formats convert easily to it. Both may be encumbered by patents but, without them, the information that Adobe has released is of limited use.

Just as important, what Adobe released is not new to the free Flash community. "Pretty much all of that stuff was known," Otte says. Savoye agrees, remarking, "We figured that all out years ago, or we wouldn't have gotten as far along as we have." Moreover, although Gnash and Swfdec are clean room implementations -- that is, developed without the aid of any information from Adobe -- Savoye suggests that, "Most of this documentation, if we really wanted it, has already leaked out on the Internet years ago."
A competitive move

http://www.openmedianow.org/?q=node/21

[earlz]

Yes I did notice that bit later.. but apparently ffmpeg has support for the Sorenson codec by elaborate DLL hacking(which is somehow legal?)

and the RTMP I don't much care about. lol.

This does mean that we could eventually have SWF creators that are not Adobe based. Because SVG+SMIL is hardly supported anywhere right now and MPEG is not vector based.. so right now SWF is the only vector based animation format that is widely "supported"

[Cognition]

For what it's worth the RTMP specification has at least some documentation present here.

[Brynet-Inc]

I think the problem is RTMPE, which has all the DRM stuff.. I'm not enthusiastic about anything 'flash' related.

[madeofstaples]

Yes I did notice that bit later.. but apparently ffmpeg has support for the Sorenson codec by elaborate DLL hacking(which is somehow legal?)

Interesting, I wonder if Sorenson Media would have grounds to sue but they just don't care that much?

and the RTMP I don't much care about. lol.

Right, I don't expect many of us here would, but it is technically necessary for full open-source support.

This does mean that we could eventually have SWF creators that are not Adobe based.

I understand that OpenOffice.org Draw can create SWFs? I've never tried it so I don't know how complete that support is...

Anyway, I'm with Brynet-Inc in that I'm not enthusiastic about anything flash related. I really wish people would stop using flash unnecessarily for their websites, and where flash is used professionally (e.g, youtube, etc...), I wish XHTML and DOM would incorporate a more... light-weight solution as a standard. Did you know that Ford's Sync (in-dash computer) is done in flash, and it runs on top of windows CE? They outsource the design of all the menus, error messages, etc to a third-party company who produces flash animations! So Ford is undoubtedly in expensive contracts with Microsoft and Adobe at least, and I'm sure a lot of money is wasted because the managers in charge of the project don't understand that a more elegant solution could be devised by their own developers...

[Owen]

There is a lighter weight flash alternative for video: It's called HTML5.

It's also useless because Apple are apparently too scared to implement a baseline codec which is not patent encumbered (AKA Theora) because they're worried about the minuscule chance it is covered by some unknown patent. This in spite of the fact that VP3 shipped in games for years.

(Yes, I know Theora, quality wise, is crap on par with MPEG-4 ASP. I said baseline codec for a reason).

For now it's Flash or... Flash.

[iammisc]

SWF is an open format but it is only open for people to create SWF creators, not readers. For example, OpenOffice.org Draw can legally create swf files by using the swf specification, but open-source swf players will have to completely cleanroom reverse-engineer the format.

[Owen]

SWF is an open format but it is only open for people to create SWF creators, not readers. For example, OpenOffice.org Draw can legally create swf files by using the swf specification, but open-source swf players will have to completely cleanroom reverse-engineer the format.

Who says? Certainly not Adobe's specifications - it's got no usage restrictions.

And remember - Adobe make money from the flash creation software, not the player!

[Dex]

There is a lighter weight flash alternative for video: It's called HTML5.

I agree, there are too many powers that be, that do not want to rely on flash and are pushing HTML5.
So HTML5 is the way to go, but they need to set a video standard, before it can move forward.
I would go OGG.