OSDev.org

Hi,

I have been reading about the forum, here and there, this and that.

Something began to trouble me, however. I was reading, and there was a growing annoyance: off-topic posting.

While no one is perfect, certainly myself included, my head is nearly ready to explode. With the growth of 'noob' threads, and the ability to quickly disregard their actual content and move on to something else (ie. off-topic posting), this habit has apparently spread out from its origin, and there is increasingly shorter and shorter posts based on pointless and irrelevant details from the thread.

Take Solar's rant, for example. It starts off with numerous lengthly posts, but quickly dwindles into a conversation on whether DOS 8 existed. The TUI thread starts off interesting, but pours into a piece on versions of Basic.

It would appear that these 'poor' sections of talk are founded on the idea that the 'post' is simply what one would say in conversation. It is not. The post is a constructed piece of writing, similar to an essay, defending a certain view point. Threads are discussions, arguments. (With several notable exceptions - debug sessions, auto-delete forum threads, and threads where the overall tone is more "laid back".)

Unless the bitter details have meaning in the conversation, and in any way sway it, they are meaningless. Ideas, and thoughts are what members are trying to get across, not 'facts'. It's near childish to spew information for the sake of making oneself seem smart. Quick facts here and there are what largely constitute these conversation-esque posts.

Similar to the 'fact-based' quick post is another form of post that is also annoying. The 'stating the obvious' post. If a post only summarizes what people are saying, or have said, it is worse than the state the fact. This is where the 'don't feed the troll' rule comes from. A troll starts a thread. One person says he's a troll. Another says the same, over and over until the the sheep return.

Posts should introduce something to something. If you do not have some unique idea to introduce to the thread you are posting in, then don't post. By not simply posting what first comes to mind, you could very well develop and refine your idea. (It should be noted, however, that community development of ideas is the entire point of a forum, so only an appropriate amount of time should be spent on this step.)

I'm sorry, but I have a large headache, and my wrist is killing me from overuse this weak. (Typing, that is.)

I'm going to stop now.
Alboin

PS: Sorry if this has been discussed in the recent past and I've failed to see it.

I mostly agree. However, I think that off-topic posting is ok, as long as it doesn't get out of control.
And I know that I post off topic sometimes, and I'm trying to cut back.

The growth of noob threads is a little odd in my opinion, I don't know where they all come from, and why every noob posts the same thing and can't figure out how to read the other posts.

I believe that there are a couple things at work here:
1) More people try to start in with less experience, I think because this field is growing, and it grabs more people who think it's easier than it is.
2) The people in this forum are starting to get to know each other a lot more, and with the number of members growing, we add to this. This is (IMHO) not a bad thing, as this whole deal becomes more social, which I like. However you are right, there is more off-topicness and more real conversations (which I don't mind).

As long as the off-topicness isn't that bad in the OS development forum, and the Design forum, its ok.
General Ramblings is made for conversations.
The Wiki forum should be for discussions about the wiki, and the About forum isn't used that much anyway.
The Auto-Delete forum, is of course, fine to have conversations in.
The Announcements forum should have some conversation, but should be more strict that GR, because we are usually discussing ideas and projects, etc.

But I do agree that the 3 OS Development forums + General Programming should have less off-topic, but I don't actually mind this.

-JL

The post is a constructed piece of writing, similar to an essay, defending a certain view point. Threads are discussions, arguments.

I think you are describing a technical journal in this sentence. And they have their place. But this place is a lot less formal than that. Which, IMHO, is a good thing.

... there is increasingly shorter and shorter posts based on pointless and irrelevant details from the thread.

Once someone says their piece then it shouldn't really surprise anyone that they don't have much left to say.

And it is pretty hard to talk shop all the time when we are all working on separate projects on a topic that lacks instant gratification.

Sorry to be OT, but what do you guys thing about bottled beer? Kidding, yeah... think I may have been OT a few times, I'll be more careful in the forums that require this...

Hello again,

I read something once, in some article somewhere, the location of which escapes me. In any case, it was about crime in a certain subway system. It was suggested, after several failed attempts at lowering the crime rate, that the graffiti be cleaned from the subway, and that constant care be taken to secure its removal. Over time, this subtle change reduced the crime rate in that subway. The atmosphere of a certain place largely determines what occurs in it, and my mind is boggled as to the lack of thought in some of the posts here.

We have all of these short pointless posts that would be better to do on IRC. They lower the entire field such that the newest programmer finds the entire 'osdeving' affair to be simple. Isn't this our major error? Have we gotten rid of our standards, lost the 'professionalism', if you will, of the craft?

While it is sure that we cannot always talk as if in a journal, isn't it expected that we offer a certain level of civility and maturity in our writing? The fact that a community is familiar with itself is no reason to abandon the appropriate social customs that maturity prescribes. Commenting and trashing the tail of a thread simply because the matter has been solved is rather rude. The thread is closed, done with. Any further conversation, to remain on-topic, should be put in its own thread. In this case, if one's post does not deserve its own topic, then it does not need to be posted.

This is an osdev forum. It is a collection of programmers come together under the same common interest. On one hand, it is, indeed, a social circle. However, on the other, it is an opportunity to talk with others of the same mindset. I'm afraid that all too often, it is simply seen as a place of social gathering, and the amount of knowledge that can be shared is lost to this easier pretext.

Toodles,
Alboin

Well, one thing that I suggest which is already done, but the amount of this could be increased...
If theres a continuing series of off-topic replys in a thread, all related replys could be taken out and pt into another thread with an appropriate name in the appropriate forum.

-JL

I would say that the Mods already do a perfectly acceptable job of untangling multi-subject threads. Maybe it takes them a few days to get around to a particular thread -- I don't see any need to hurry.

But overall, I have never seen a board in my entire life where threads stayed on-topic. It sounds like an idealistic dream to me. We do significantly better here than most.

I'm not saying that the mods are doing a bad job - they're doing a wonderful job - it's just that yesterday night when I logged on, nearly every thread seemed to be the same. I clicked the convenient 'end arrow' on the main screen, went to the end of several threads, and found the same people posting incredibly irrelevantly.

In regards to stupid posting, there is nothing the mods can do, in actuality. Only when the post becomes so outrageously stupid do they interfere. In the meantime, stupid posts that aren't really too offensive are posted. While not meaning much themselves, they do suck some of the energy out of this board when considered together. That's why I wrote that little rant above. The solution to stupid posting is on the shoulders of those doing it.

Please, post smartly.