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Thought it would be interesting to see what yall think. (Brought about by Jeko's comment: "Legalize now!!! (not marijuana but reverse engineering )")

Should marijuana be legal?

IMO, the government has no right to say what I can and cannot do inside my home when it hurts no one, so I'm all for it being legal. I'm for the legalization of most drugs, actually. (eg. Who was Stanely hurting when he made LSD in his basement and sold it?)

I think if more people were responsible enough to do as you say (only use it in their own home/privacy), the it would be fine to have it legalized. Unfortunately, people will end up using it in public or using it to get high and then drive or do something that could potentially injure someone else. It's just like alchohol, if you drink in your own home, or with friends in their homes and you don't leave to become a threat to others, it is fine, but the second you either get into a car or start making scenes outside or something, it crosses the line quickly.

I think if more people were responsible enough to do as you say (only use it in their own home/privacy), the it would be fine to have it legalized. Unfortunately, people will end up using it in public or using it to get high and then drive or do something that could potentially injure someone else. It's just like alchohol, if you drink in your own home, or with friends in their homes and you don't leave to become a threat to others, it is fine, but the second you either get into a car or start making scenes outside or something, it crosses the line quickly.

Should we not ban alcohol then? It just doesn't make sense that because bad things can happen with something, that we should make it illegal. Essentially, with that, all you're doing is ignoring the problem, hoping it will go away if you tell people they can't do it. This never works, and, in the end, you end up making black markets, gangs, filled prisons, wasted tax money, etc. If anything, it would make sense to make it legal for private use, which, AFAIK, is the case with alcohol. (Public drinking is illegal in most places.)

I say legalize it, along with some drugs. Also, I believe that the drinking age should be lowered.

-JL

Alboin wrote: Should we not ban alcohol then? It just doesn't make sense that because bad things can happen with something, that we should make it illegal. Essentially, with that, all you're doing is ignoring the problem, hoping it will go away if you tell people they can't do it. This never works, and, in the end, you end up making black markets, gangs, filled prisons, wasted tax money, etc. If anything, it would make sense to make it legal for private use, which, AFAIK, is the case with alcohol. (Public drinking is illegal in most places.)

There's always lines to be drawn with things like this. I think the major illusion here is that there's very little impact from drug use for most people using them. If a crackhouse or a methlab opens up in a community just wait and watch it go downhill. Prositution and theft, armed assault and a multitude of issues follow and flow from the use of a lot of illicit drugs. I forget the exact statistics but here in the U.S. there was something 65%+ being committed under the influence of a substance, the bulk of it being alcohol. On top of that prolonged use a lot of heavier drugs will flat out induce psychosis and a number of other health problems, once someone is compentent to care for themselves they become a burden on either the state or their family. I'd definitely argue that there's a lot of substances that should never be legalized.

I think do think marijuana is one where a good number of people can use it responsibly. I'm more then fine with terminal paitents using it as a painkiller too. Still there's a lot of people that absolutely will not use it responsibly. I don't think it really actively incites the same kind of crime that other drugs do partially because of it's nature as a depressent and how widespread/cheap it is compared to other substances. Some of the long term side effects of heavy use can be pretty severe as well. In general though I think the real question is what good does it do to have it around?

Alcohol and tobacco pretty much are still around because of lobbying and tradition. On top of that alcohol is ridiculously easy to make and would be nearly impossible to get rid of. Once again I think you can probably make a lot of similar arguments between alcohol and marijuana in terms of why it should be legal, but ultimately alcohol wins out because of how long it's been in common use and how incredibly widespread it's regular responsible use is.

Criminals will always, as the old saying goes "where there's a will there's a way". If it wasn't drugs it'd probably be gambling, prositution, robbery or maybe ransom. Generally if your circumstances have driven you to that point or you have a interpretation of the law it's not going to matter too much what the crime is as long as someone isn't physically harmed and even that can be pushing it for some people. Yes there's some futility in all all laws, you'll never catch all the criminals and in some cases of the economics of it don't work out. For example, there's a lot of rules regarding high speed chases now due to the huge risk and collateral damage they can cause. Based on the number of deaths from auto accident related deaths and my own experience on the highway I'd say there's quite a few people who shouldn't be allowed to drive an automobile, but have a driver's license none the less. Equal rights are binary in nature though, and cars tend to have a lot more productive uses then say... getting baked on your sofa :p

Cognition wrote:There's always lines to be drawn with things like this. I think the major illusion here is that there's very little impact from drug use for most people using them. If a crackhouse or a methlab opens up in a community just wait and watch it go downhill. Prositution and theft, armed assault and a multitude of issues follow and flow from the use of a lot of illicit drugs. I forget the exact statistics but here in the U.S. there was something 65%+ being committed under the influence of a substance, the bulk of it being alcohol. On top of that prolonged use a lot of heavier drugs will flat out induce psychosis and a number of other health problems, once someone is compentent to care for themselves they become a burden on either the state or their family. I'd definitely argue that there's a lot of substances that should never be legalized.

IMO, the state should give no care about what people do to themselves. If people drink themselves into oblivion, OD on heroin, or go insane due to drug use, it's not the state's problem. The costs involved in taking care of these people once they can no longer take care of themselves would probably be nothing compared to the costs of locking them all up in a prison, and waging a continual war on drugs. As for the effects on the community, it's the job of the people who live there to take care of their neighborhood. (By the way, I have no problem with prostitution. As far as I'm concerned, it should be legal. If anything, once recognized as an industry, this would at least make it healthier by providing more knowledge and care to its workers, that is, rather than arresting them as well.)

Cognition wrote:I think do think marijuana is one where a good number of people can use it responsibly. I'm more then fine with terminal paitents using it as a painkiller too. Still there's a lot of people that absolutely will not use it responsibly. I don't think it really actively incites the same kind of crime that other drugs do partially because of it's nature as a depressent and how widespread/cheap it is compared to other substances. Some of the long term side effects of heavy use can be pretty severe as well. In general though I think the real question is what good does it do to have it around?

By not spending millions of tax payer's money on drug enforcement, arresting pot smoking 'criminals', and then locking them up and taking care of them for x number of years, there would be a lot of money for other things, like actually making our country a better place to live.

Cognition wrote:Alcohol and tobacco pretty much are still around because of lobbying and tradition. On top of that alcohol is ridiculously easy to make and would be nearly impossible to get rid of. Once again I think you can probably make a lot of similar arguments between alcohol and marijuana in terms of why it should be legal, but ultimately alcohol wins out because of how long it's been in common use and how incredibly widespread it's regular responsible use is.

I forget the exact statistics but here in the U.S. there was something 65%+ being committed under the influence of a substance, the bulk of it being alcohol.

Cognition wrote:Criminals will always, as the old saying goes "where there's a will there's a way". If it wasn't drugs it'd probably be gambling, prositution, robbery or maybe ransom.

One must define 'criminal'. A pot smoking teenager is by no means a criminal, but, he would be arrested, and his record marked. Legalizing marijuana wouldn't let a bunch of 'criminals' go free, but redefine what to be a 'criminal' means. If anything, it should mean that one has restricted the liberties of another human being. How does doing the occasional drug do this?

Well, I think that most crimes that are usually associated with drug dealing would be much less prevalent if recreational drug use was legalized.

Crimes of drug possession would be gone (for obvious reasons), theft and armed assault related to the drug are usually done because of its illegal nature, therefore making it hard to acquire and making the only possible way of obtaining it would be through gangs and such. If recreational drugs were sold legally through normal retail channels instead (and so it follows, cheaper than through previously illegal methods), you'd expect to see crimes related to the drug drop dramatically. Part of the thrill of taking such a drug would also be taken away since it would now be legitimately available to the public, so a random teenager might not start using it anymore to seem cool to his peers.

I also agree that there's nothing wrong with prostitution. (So people are allowed to have sex for free but not for money? It's still consensual either way) Making it a legal industry would make the practice safer, healthier, and accepted better in society.

This might seem obvious, but wouldn't legalizing marijuana actually solve these problems?
As most of the price is associated with the danger/cost of smuggling it?
Since it would cost a hell of a lot less, people who where addicted would be able to afford it as the prices would come down, therefore diminishing crime related with the drug as people wouldn't be forced to crime to get the money to get there fix...
Also there would be less addiction, as people mostly do drugs, because their exiting and different, if it becomes legal, a lot of the excitement will go away, therefore there be a smaller rate of use and re-use (as most people don't get hooked after the first use...), therefore diminishing the amount of people addicted to it in later life and therefore impacting all the problems related to it...
Also, I have to say that in many cases, it's probably the lesser of two evils if the alternative is alcohol as India Night recently pointed out in one of her articles...
Just my opinion...

Jules

IMO, the state should give no care about what people do to themselves. If people drink themselves into oblivion, OD on heroin, or go insane due to drug use, it's not the state's problem. The costs involved in taking care of these people once they can no longer take care of themselves would probably be nothing compared to the costs of locking them all up in a prison, and waging a continual war on drugs. As for the effects on the community, it's the job of the people who live there to take care of their neighborhood. (By the way, I have no problem with prostitution. As far as I'm concerned, it should be legal. If anything, once recognized as an industry, this would at least make it healthier by providing more knowledge and care to its workers, that is, rather than arresting them as well.)

The problem with this is that people don't live in some isolated bubble where they can just go insane without impacting another person. People don't generally go insane or hit rock bottom without having a very high chance of ending up in either the mental health system or the penal system anyways. You can't just will them away. Regarding the economics of it all, I'm pretty much fine with it. I think in general we need to put some tighter controls on money we spend abroad to deal with the problem. Mexico has had a kind of lax record with actually going after a lot of drug kingpins, I don't know that we should keep sending them money to condone the practice.

One must define 'criminal'. A pot smoking teenager is by no means a criminal, but, he would be arrested, and his record marked. Legalizing marijuana wouldn't let a bunch of 'criminals' go free, but redefine what to be a 'criminal' means. If anything, it should mean that one has restricted the liberties of another human being. How does doing the occasional drug do this?

I was addressing more the statements you made about gangs and black markets. I wouldn't lump all users and drug addicts in the same category as criminals, though it is technically illegal. My point on alcohol was that it's not necessarily much better, but it's been around forever and thus become very ingrained with society. It's arguably easier to moderate use of it or enjoy it as a beverage too.

This might seem obvious, but wouldn't legalizing marijuana actually solve these problems?
As most of the price is associated with the danger/cost of smuggling it?
Since it would cost a hell of a lot less, people who where addicted would be able to afford it as the prices would come down, therefore diminishing crime related with the drug as people wouldn't be forced to crime to get the money to get there fix...
Also there would be less addiction, as people mostly do drugs, because their exiting and different, if it becomes legal, a lot of the excitement will go away, therefore there be a smaller rate of use and re-use (as most people don't get hooked after the first use...), therefore diminishing the amount of people addicted to it in later life and therefore impacting all the problems related to it...
Also, I have to say that in many cases, it's probably the lesser of two evils if the alternative is alcohol as India Night recently pointed out in one of her articles...
Just my opinion...

Only thing I'd really argue here is what you're stating as reasons people pick up drug use for. I don't think most people are thrill seekers doing it just doing it because it's illegal, maybe a few teenagers. I think most people tend to use it more to relax or as a form of escapism. I doubt they'd really decrease if the drug was made legal. I'm also of the opinion that this is where an addiction and dependency really starts. That's what really creates a drunk or a drug addict most of the time, the need and dependence to use a substance to avoid an issue or problem. Some people can moderate it, but a lot can't and hit rock bottom and end up just burning out. I think society is at a point medically where there's just better alternatives that are fully legal and with less severe side effects. It'd be better all around to focus some of that energy towards lowering prescription drug prices and deal with the demand aspect of it all directly.

The problem with this is that people don't live in some isolated bubble where they can just go insane without impacting another person. People don't generally go insane or hit rock bottom without having a very high chance of ending up in either the mental health system or the penal system anyways. You can't just will them away.

The type of people who would hit such levels of abuse, and end up in some trouble, would probably end up doing said crime with or without the drugs.

Regarding the economics of it all, I'm pretty much fine with it. I think in general we need to put some tighter controls on money we spend abroad to deal with the problem. Mexico has had a kind of lax record with actually going after a lot of drug kingpins, I don't know that we should keep sending them money to condone the practice.

Why not spend the money on something else?

Funny thing that prostitution was mentioned. Here's my view of it, the porn business has grown into a very large industry protected by the government (1st amendment sorta.) What's the only 2 difference between porn and prostitution? Who's paying and the fact that it's being filmed (there are some other differences like the record keeping and stuff but they're really not important.) So if you want to go to a prostitute bring a friend who has the money and a video camera.

What an individual does in his or her own house should be there own business (to a point of course, we can't just allow rape or anything like that.) But the second that person leaves his house its no longer his private business. Legalize the use and sale of marijuana inside of the home, but if you walk out of your house high or drunk then you should be arrested for endangering the lives of the people around you. I know that plenty of people can probably drive just fine while high or drunk most of the time but it only takes that one time to screw up and end the lives of 4 or 5 people.

My point to all of this is go ahead and legalize it but make it illegal in public(especially cigarettes!! I hate them).

Voted "No" as I missed the option "Yes, but for medical purposes only".

If something has addictive properties and is harmful, then it is in the natural interest of the government to control the substance and protect its citizens. Of course, there are pro's and con's to everything (e.g. would making it illegal make it more attractive to abusers?)

If the government didn't get involved in what we could/couldn't put in to our bodies then there's no idea what sort of chemicals we would be finding in our every day foods.

Alcohol is probably the most commonly abused drug (a lot of food additives have been banned for a lot less), but I doubt many government's will ban it soon because of;
- It's historical use.
- The high rate of people which consume alcohol.
- The hundreds of thousands of employees in the beer/wine/drink industry left jobless.

Anyway the system is not perfect or equal. I've said what I've wanted to say so now I'll step out of this debate.

frank wrote:What's the only 2 difference between porn and prostitution? Who's paying and the fact that it's being filmed (there are some other differences like the record keeping and stuff but they're really not important.)

I usually don't join discussions like this one, because they tend to simply regurgitate the same old POV's over and over again.

But I could start telling you a couple of stories about the "difference between porn and prostitution", because I came into fairly close contact with the aftereffects of those differences...

I would go to extent of making smoking illegal as whole. People need to know that non smokers like me exist and should be considerate to us. Passive smoking is more dangerous than active smoking .

Once a frech guy entered a crowded train and started smoking right away . I was about shout at him , but the fellow passenger told me not to coz usually a foreigner is likely get more consideration from the police than an Indian .