OSDev.org

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'The original Unix solved a problem and solved it well, as did the Roman
numeral system, the mercury treatment for syphilis, and carbon paper. And
like those technologies, Unix, too, rightfully belongs to history. It was
developed for a machine with little memory, tiny disks, no graphics, no
networking, and no power. In those days it was mandatory to adopt an attitude
that said:
• “Being small and simple is more important than being complete and
correct.â€

This is simply flame bait.. why are you intentionally trying to start something that won't end well?

Please crawl back under the bridge you hail from..

mathematician wrote:(The Unix Hater's Handbook)

Discuss.

Good book to salt your opinion when you get overexcited over your Linux boxen. Nice read overall. A bit too biased to be taken for fact.

all you want to do is cause trouble...please no one post here.

every bit of that is wrong.

As Solar said, the book is a bit too biased to be taken for fact.

I agreed with you right up until you started reciting excerpts from The Unix Hater's Handbook.

I am very much against calling people trolls and flame baiters... but you my friend, are both.

next time find a more reputable source of information.

Brynet-Inc wrote:Please crawl back under the bridge you hail from..

He is just saying hello to his fuhrer

(just kidding)

The funny thing is the author now works for Microsoft.

Hey guys, let's reject someone else's opinion because it's different from ours; it seems like the cool thing to do! Seriously everyone, he wanted to start a discussion, so let's discuss the merits of this excerpt, instead of practically yelling "I'm not listening!" while covering our ears.

It does bring up a good point on the limitations of a stream-oriented system; this paradigm seems to fit best, as the author also mentioned, to a text-only environment. As an example, taken to an extreme, I doubt there's a tasteful way to apply "files" and "streams" to something like 3d rendering (and no, don't reply with "What about 'cat polygon > /dev/renderer', LoL!").

Just trying to get a discussion going.

lollynoob wrote:Hey guys, let's reject someone else's opinion because it's different from ours; it seems like the cool thing to do! Seriously everyone, he wanted to start a discussion, so let's discuss the merits of this excerpt, instead of practically yelling "I'm not listening!" while covering our ears.

It does bring up a good point on the limitations of a stream-oriented system; this paradigm seems to fit best, as the author also mentioned, to a text-only environment. As an example, taken to an extreme,

Just trying to get a discussion going.

First limitation with stream-oriented as with assembly, both are lowlevel, but wrap objects at a higherlevel, it then becomes the more powerful, right?

My point is streams are a low-level, with higherlevel concept, wraped around this low-level concept, anything can happen. Also as this is a OSDev site, I would asume that you know that Operating System are made up of small components that abtract interface to hardware.

lollynoob wrote: I doubt there's a tasteful way to apply "files" and "streams" to something like 3d rendering (and no, don't reply with "What about 'cat polygon > /dev/renderer', LoL!").

in a sense yes. This what you can do, for example, open and seek to a byte on a disk as though it were a file. 3D renders would do the same thing, Accept that the library send commands to the file. The whole point of a operating system is an abstract hardware interfaces, so that the program can run regardless of hardware.

So when we say this is crap, we have our reason, it's just that there so obvious that it's a waste of time to discuss

lollynoob wrote:Seriously everyone, he wanted to start a discussion...

...quoting from the "Unix Hater's Handbook", without even bothering to pitch in his own opinion? Cf. flame bait.

Solar wrote:

lollynoob wrote:Seriously everyone, he wanted to start a discussion...

...quoting from the "Unix Hater's Handbook", without even bothering to pitch in his own opinion? Cf. flame bait.

This is word-for-word exactly what I was about to post.

[quote]“I liken starting one's computing career with Unix, say as a undergraduate, to being born in East Africa. It is intolerably hot, your body is covered with lice and flies, you are malnourished and you suffer from numerous curable diseases. But, as far as young East Africans can tell, this is simply the natural condition and they live within it. By the time they find out differently, it is too late. They already think that the writing of shell scripts is a natural act.â€

Solar wrote:

lollynoob wrote:Seriously everyone, he wanted to start a discussion...

...quoting from the "Unix Hater's Handbook", without even bothering to pitch in his own opinion? Cf. flame bait.

Things like this only become flame wars if you're enough of a retard to yell at someone over the internet because they don't like your operating system.

Aha. Another such posting that's only here to incite deep, technical-philosophical discussion by forwarding a thought-through hypothesis to be reviewed by the peers.

For the books (and for the umpteenth time), I don't hold Unix in high regard myself, am quite avid in flaming much of the development culture that evolved around it (especially the FSF and its brainchild GPL), and use Linux as "my" operating system only because it's free as in free beer and Windows sucks even worse, hard to believe as that might be.

I could quote a paragraph of the mission statement of the U.S. department for Homeland Security, or from "Mein Kampf". If all I have to say on the subject is "discuss!", such poor choice of quoting source would mark such a posting as "flame bait".

And in case you haven't noticed, mathematician has not even hinted at whether he thinks the Unix Haters Handbook is spot-on or just so much crap, so how do you know he "doesn't like my operating system"?

Oh, by the way, "my" operating system project was called "Pro-POS", and we consciously decided not to go out of our way for POSIX-compliance. The project is dead, though, but I focussed on the PDCLib sub-project - which isn't POSIX-oriented either.

PS: I have the Unix Hater's Handbook sitting on my hard drive for several years now, and have actually read major portions of it, because I believe it helps you to avoid making the same mistakes. Have you read it?

PPS: The original post still is flame bait.