Hello everybody

Shadyjames · Post by **Shadyjames** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:47 pm

Lo mates! I'm new to OSDev, and even programming in general. I'm here because a good friend of mine, matthew (you know him as pcmattman) heard that i wanted to start doing C and C++. i believe the conversation went something like this.
"If the school makes me do one more program thats executing a simple mathematical formula i'm going to stab somebody. I'm just going to move to the fun bits and program over the holidays."
"Ooh, go to OSDev and post there telling them you're a newbie, they'll give you all sorts of awesome tuts and assistance. Also mention that you have cygwin. Don't say anything about VB." (too late =D)
So here i am, looking to skip the "hello world" and "foo+bar" programs for something thats still really easy, but still containing some sort of brain usage.
Also, pleased to meet you in advance

Zacariaz · Post by **Zacariaz** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:56 pm

Well welcome.
So you want to skip hello world. I know exactly how you feel, but it might not be as easy as one should think.
One of my biggest problems has been that i want to create something usefull and even better something that nobody has done before!
It is somewhat tough though. First of all i have an imagination equivalent to that of an ant.
If i should come up with something its either to complex for me and my limited intelligence or i lag the experience and knowledge to do it.
I think i have like a 1000 half finished projects which i know will never be done. That is what happens when you skip the hello world stage.

Still i will do what i can to help. Good luck

01000101 · Post by **01000101** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:14 pm

hey, welcome!

yea, once you've seen the 'hello world' tut once, you NEVER want to see it again... bleh. =)

personally, before I jumped into OS devving, I used to make cryptographic software. If you don't wanna do OS development, a great way to excercise your brain and become a better programmer, is (in my opinion) develop some encryption/decryption software to keep safe your file or secure transmission between two parties.

or better yet, develop a program that counter-acts Cruzer's U3 technology so that it doesnt install shiz and auto run whatever is there automattically... but that's just my own thought.

Alboin · Post by **Alboin** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:28 pm

As for some simpler programs to start with, may I suggest a program to compress and decompress a file with Huffman Coding? It's not very repetitive, has several elements to learn, and should keep you busy for a week or two. (Depending on whether you know what a binary tree is.

)

If that's a bit too difficult, then a Brainfuck interpreter may also be in order. It should be much simpler, and require only about an hour or so. (Once again, depending on your skill level.)

Good Luck!

pcmattman · Post by **pcmattman** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:29 pm

Hey Shady,

About time you showed up

. I only suggested you join, what, 2 months ago?

Shadyjames · Post by **Shadyjames** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:57 pm

Yeah well i do have school to attend to, and those internet randoms aren't going to shoot THEMSELVES in the head. Well, actually they do but lets not get picky. Thanks for all the suggestions! I just constructed my first huffman tree on paper (still working it, and i almost called it a "Hoffman tree" just then so I'll keep working for a while yet)
Problem is my brain still thinks in VB when i'm thinking about how to implement stuff, so i'm going to do some....practice...

Alboin · Post by **Alboin** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:18 pm

Shadyjames wrote: Problem is my brain still thinks in VB when i'm thinking about how to implement stuff, so i'm going to do some....practice...

Not to be discouraging, but that just brought this quote to mind

:

Edsger W. Dijkstra wrote: It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.

Zacariaz · Post by **Zacariaz** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:29 pm

im glad i never learned basic.

01000101 · Post by **01000101** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:02 pm

likewise

Shadyjames · Post by **Shadyjames** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:15 pm

It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.

That is actually really funny. Yes, from my limited exposure to non-basic programming languages i'm beginning to realise just how brain damaging it is. EG there is no way to do multi-line comments, i am told, something that has frustrated me daily and also will make it unecessarily difficult to get back into the "thou shalt comment" habit. Before i take on some of those projects suggested - thanks again btw - i might try and reverse the "mental mutilation" as it were.

Combuster · Post by **Combuster** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:49 am

What's all this stereotype and prejudice about BASIC ?!?

Basic isn't about bad programming habits, its an procedural language with a large runtime and no pointers. Its not inferior to others, only different.

And that quote is basically a logical fallacy. Besides, that guy also said the following:

Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have originated in California.

EG there is no way to do multi-line comments,

So does assembly.
--------

I'm new to OSDev, and even programming in general.

OS Development is an especially bad way to learn programming in. It is not a beginners subject and while we don't mind helping people find a trivial bug, repeated occasions will only get annoying. Getting Started holds a list of the formal prerequisites. It gives you an idea of what to learn

JamesM · Post by **JamesM** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:01 am

Any language where one of the primary control transfer statements is GOTO, and is actually used in code, is a Bad Thing. And this comes from someone who started coding at the age of 7 in ZX spectrum BASIC, onto FASTBasic on the ATARI ST then (a little bit of) visual basic. It's a horrendous language.

Combuster · Post by **Combuster** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:10 am

The last basic clone that depended on GOTO that I used was GWbasic, on some old 8086. QuickBasic and later are all procedural and can do perfectly without.

uneducated stereotype indeed

JackScott · Post by **JackScott** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:14 am

Just because a language can be used without GOTO, doesn't mean that the programmers will do that. I was still using GOTO in 2002 using BlitzBasic (SHOCK HORROR). It's a part of the vibe (for lack of a better word) of the language and the programmers who use it.

Combuster · Post by **Combuster** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:21 am

And there's the confession it is *not* basic that's the problem, but the mentally injured cult that just happens to use it.

Exactly what I wanted to hear.