OSDev.org

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:49 am**

hckr83 wrote:
why use OSS that need bug fixes when you have notepad (stable since win95)
Well let's see... no syntax highlighting, no line numbers to help with compiler errors, no tabbing, you have to browse through everything to open another file, there no built in debugging, there's no nifty "build" button so you have to open up another window type in "make" or "build.bat" and then wait for it to compile and see if there are any errors, umm when opening big files it will often act very slow, ummm... and can't handle unix files...so their why not to use notepad

Up to about 3months ago, I used only notepad for Deving DexOS and found it fine other than file size restrictions.
Q syntax highlighting.
A never bothered me, if a editor has it or not.

Q no line numbers
A has bubach said, also note, with fasm it prints the error line out as well as the line number .

Q no tabbing, you have to browse through everything to open another file.
A never bothered me.

Q there no built in debugging.
A the greatest debugger is between your ear's and this is the next best debugger

Code: Select all

mov   byte [es:0xB809E], "1"
;some code here
mov   byte [es:0xB809E], "2"
;some code here
mov   byte [es:0xB809E], "3"
;some code here
mov   byte [es:0xB809E], "4"

And maybe a hexprint function.

Q there's no nifty "build" button so you have to open up another window type in "make" or "build.bat" and then wait for it to compile and see if there are any errors.
A this is right, but whats this "wait" ?, oh i forgot some of you are not using FASM.

Q can't handle unix files...so their why not to use notepad
A now this is a problem, those linux boys/girls need to fix this

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:11 pm**

Q there's no nifty "build" button so you have to open up another window type in "make" or "build.bat" and then wait for it to compile and see if there are any errors.
A this is right, but whats this "wait" ?, oh i forgot some of you are not using FASM.

now that was cheap!

Qcan't handle unix files...so their why not to use notepad
A now this is a problem, those linux boys/girls need to fix this Wink

doesn't windows demand you have an extra useless byte for new lines? it's like CR-LF...also C doesn't work like dumb windows...for C you don't put printf("my line\r\nMy next line");...

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:42 pm**

Dex wrote:Q can't handle unix files...so their why not to use notepad
A now this is a problem, those linux boys/girls need to fix this

Pardon? UNIX like systems have been using LF for a long time, Why DOS/Windows used the CR-LF pair is beyond me, Some say it's because CP/M used it... I myself think they did it simply to be different from UNIX.

Considering UNIX is much older.. and the single LF has always been used.. Maybe Microsoft should fix their own incompatibilities.

While RFC specs usually require both, They also note that an application SHOULD be aware of just LF.. or \n for those lovely C programmers out there.

Dex, Grow up

SciTE is a nice editor.. All those users who refuse to use a better system like UNIX are more then able to use a good editor at least.. Notepad++ uses the same backend as SciTE..

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:28 pm**

I agree that cr-lf is pretty lame. But if you must convert text files to a format that Windows understands, this might help:

http://members.shaw.ca/brucej/tools/DeUnixify.zip

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:49 am**

Brynet-Inc wrote:
Dex wrote:Q can't handle unix files...so their why not to use notepad
A now this is a problem, those linux boys/girls need to fix this
Pardon? UNIX like systems have been using LF for a long time, Why DOS/Windows used the CR-LF pair is beyond me, Some say it's because CP/M used it... I myself think they did it simply to be different from UNIX.

Unix was traditionally online-only which required a newline character (LF). Windows was a system-only with printer-thing that by default should be able to print. Printers had two characters, LF for making a line feed (going down a line) and CR for returning to the start of the line. This isn't the same as the Unix linefeed logic.

Windows was superior with its system for printers that executed all characters sent to it directly, such as most, if not all, parallel printers. You could print a line bold by printing it twice, so you'd not include a LF but you would include a CR to print it twice. You could make characters bold by including a backspace and the character again.

In terms of what good it does nowadays, none whatsoever. The only thing it does worse is that it makes it possible for slightly corrupted documents to have corrupt line endings (LF only, CR only, LFCR).

I believe (but am not certain) that the Macs use only CR,. I have also heard (vaguely) about a system that uses LFCR for line endings.

Considering UNIX is much older.. and the single LF has always been used.. Maybe Microsoft should fix their own incompatibilities.

And break compatibility with themselves?

While RFC specs usually require both, They also note that an application SHOULD be aware of just LF.. or \n for those lovely C programmers out there.

\n in C is defined (afaik) as the newline character or character combination (!) whichever applies. \r\n is plain wrong as far as I know.

Could you stop throwing mud about concerning line endings? It's another endless debate to which there is no answer. Just get your software working with both and you won't have to choose.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:51 am**

Candy wrote:I believe (but am not certain) that the Macs use only CR,. I have also heard (vaguely) about a system that uses LFCR for line endings.

I think classic Mac's did, With the introduction of OSX it now supports the UNX LF method.

Mud throwing is fun, wanna be a target?

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:40 am**

@ Dex:

Not having syntax highlighting, line numbers, or a real debugger "never bothered you"? (Personally I would add projects and project-wide search & replace to that list...)

*bitingmytongue* No, I won't say that...

But, get real. I mean, really. We might discuss pros and cons of CR/LF, or which assembler is best, or which language is better for kernel development, but those features mentioned above you cannot seriously call fluff. Sure you can do development with 'ed', but... naah.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:59 am**

On GNU/Linux:
- The GNU toolchain
- Nano
- Kate (horrible syntax highlighting, but at least it can be changed)

On Windows XP:
- Cygwin
- BlitzBasic (good for prototyping really quick stuff, and games)
- Notepad2, which I love to death

For the record, I agree with Solar. If a technology advancement is there, take it. Bit of clarification: If it makes your life easier, consider it. I would. Programming is the kind of task where I want all my focus to be on the code, the variables, etc. Having to move mind states to find a line of code just holds up the works. Not having to count files line by line to find a particular statement should be a basic human right.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:48 am**

Not having syntax highlighting, line numbers, or a real debugger "never bothered you"? (Personally I would add projects and project-wide search & replace to that list...)

Not having to count files line by line to find a particular statement should be a basic human right.

first, as has been said many times, notepad has line numbering

second, solar, remember dex uses nothing but ASM, which traditionally, doesnt rely much on syntax highlighting (ive never had syntax highlighting for my ASM)

for me, atm im not doing much, and im in the midst of a total rewrite, currently using ASM in notepad with nasm, and probably moving to C/ASM in visual studio, probably with the MS toolchain+nasm converted to binary instead of PE (once i find time to actually do the rewrite im 'working' on -- or mabey its a matter of laziness instead of time... as i seem to find plenty of time to work on my thieving/farming in RS2...

)

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:06 am**

@Solar It maybe that as JAAman said, i code 100% with asm, but i am shocked that it would surprise you.
It's just the way i have always done it.

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:47 am**

JAAman wrote:first, as has been said many times, notepad has line numbering

Depending on the version (the one I have here at the office - NT 4 - has not). And it's not even so much the display of line numbers, it's the "goto line X" I would be missing, because I don't care much for having to find the error line by copy & paste & search. Then there's tab replacement, customizing tab width, keeping an indent after a line break...

second, solar, remember dex uses nothing but ASM, which traditionally, doesnt rely much on syntax highlighting (ive never had syntax highlighting for my ASM)

No langauge "relies" on syntax highlighting. But it does help with mistyped keywords, unclosed strings / comments etc., and those are problems that are as valid for Assembler as for any other language.

I have a slight problem with it when Assembler programmers start claiming things like that they don't need certain features, usually with the undertone that "comfort is for the weak". It gives me the nasty suspicion that they chose Assembler, not because of some educated decision after careful evaluation which language is best suited for the problem, but due to some "need for leet", and quite often, a lack of experience with projects beyond a certain size / complexity / number of contributors.

That's not meant in offense towards you or Dex, just a general observation made over the years (and well before I joined this forum).

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:39 am**

well, i've never even thought about syntax highlighting for ASM, (in fact i didnt even consider it possible until i made that last post)

first, as has been said many times, notepad has line numbering
Depending on the version (the one I have here at the office - NT 4 - has not)

are you sure? i thought it was on all versions (back to win3), its not displayed by default (you have to enable the status bar -- its under the view menu on winXP-SP2), id forgotten that it was there, until reading this thread (dont really use it much)

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:23 pm**

Solar wrote: That's not meant in offense towards you or Dex, just a general observation made over the years (and well before I joined this forum).

None taken, but i can assure you, from my point of view, i use ASM because i found it the easiest language to understand, basically i found C too hard to understand.
So i see C programmer as smart people, not inferior.
Some of the best and fastest code i have seen is code in C. I am the type of person who gets set in away of doing something, and like to stick to that way, even if some one shows me a better way.

Posted: **Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:50 pm**

I use notepad most frequently. Occasionally, if I'm working between files, I will load them in Visual Studio. DJGPP and Nasm have been working well for me. I find things like syntax highlighting and code completion for C programming just distracting. If I were to be programming in an OO language, I would go beyond notepad, but I like very few IDE's out there.

Posted: **Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:03 am**

This has gone off topic

I think quite a lot of people use notepad or wordpad for osdev'ing and coding in general. A lot of "Learn [insert favourite language here]" start out with saying "Open your favourite text editor", so I'd imagine most people would fire up Notepad and use that.

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what IDE and compiler do you use?