OSDev.org

Colonel Kernel wrote:Giving up rationality for the sake of your beliefs is a terrible thing, IMO. As a species, we are unique (at least on this planet) because we are capable of being rational. If God made us that way, don't you think we should embrace it?

To put it another way, why can't it be true that God communicates right and wrong to us through our faculties of reason?

God invented reason. He also invented LSD. They both have a place and use. It's just determining where and what that is. You wouldn't use LSD while shopping, just as you wouldn't use reason to try to figure out the Triune God.

He also invented LSD. They both have a place and use.

What... He created the fossil fuel gas and that does not mean you inhale it.

I actually can not understand what you are talking about? Why use such cryptic words as the Triune god and shopping while doing LSD?

I mean that all things serve a purpose, because God created all. He doesn't make things that don't have a meaning. So reason is useful, but it won't get your soul to heaven. That was my point. The LSD was just in there to help show what I meant when all things have a purpose.

Alboin wrote:So reason is useful, but it won't get your soul to heaven.

Failing to use it in matters of moral importance is a really effective way of getting your soul into hell, if you believe in hell.

Alboin wrote:You wouldn't use LSD while shopping

Actually, in pre-decimalisation Britain you would have as LSD = librae, solidi, denarii, or pounds, shillings and pence.

haha

Colonel Kernel wrote:

Alboin wrote:So reason is useful, but it won't get your soul to heaven.

Failing to use it in matters of moral importance is a really effective way of getting your soul into hell, if you believe in hell.

No, not at all. What I do is irrelevant. Christianity states that anyone who believes in Christ will go to heaven. You could be some murderer who killed 120 people, and it wouldn't matter as long as you believed in Christ. (Albeit, there is the unforgivable sin, but besides that.)

I remember someone telling me that there is actually a part in the bible that says something to the affect that even if you believe in Christ you might not go to heaven. Has anyone ever seen something like this?

Oh. Look at this.
James tells us "the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19).

Does anyone have a bible that really contains that?

Kevin McGuire wrote:Oh. Look at this.
James tells us "the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19).

Does anyone have a bible that really contains that?

James was worried that the Pauline emphasis upon justification through faith might lead people to say, "Ooh, I have faith......" and that's it. No moral or practical implications for everyday life - nothing:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

Jame's position has its own problems of course, because it could be taken to mean that broken human beings have to work their own way into heaven; something they are fundamentally incapable of doing.

May i ask Alboin why it is that you attempt to justify not only the Bible being truth but also why there is no point arguing it by quoting the Bible? That would be like me writing a book with the words "This is all seriously true" at the end and using that as evidence as to all the events in the book happening.

if we asume that god excist, then we can allso asume god created man among anything else, and if that is true, how can i be responsiple for my actions, and better yet, how can i deside wether or not to believe in god. God creted me, and if i for some reason dont believe in god, it must be a part of gods plan.


A mentally ill person, murders alot of people because he believe that it is the right thing to do, he believe that it is what god wantsof him, surely he must go to heaven then?

Zacariaz wrote:if we asume that god excist, then we can allso asume god created man among anything else, and if that is true, how can i be responsiple for my actions, and better yet, how can i deside wether or not to believe in god. God creted me, and if i for some reason dont believe in god, it must be a part of gods plan.


A mentally ill person, murders alot of people because he believe that it is the right thing to do, he believe that it is what god wantsof him, surely he must go to heaven then?

Ahh but God Gives all people free will...

... then again isn't God Omnipotent and existant at all moments in time, wouldn't this mean that he already knows of the future so we really don't have a choice in the matter...

... in this case we don't really have free will because we can't make decisions about a future that is already known...

... So in the end it doesn't really matter what we do as it is all set out...

... Or maybe we shouldn't be silly enough to take the bible as truth.

I for one dont care about the bible, but i seem to remember reading somewhere that the bible actually states somewhere (might be a matter of interpetation) that you cant decide to believe.

Zacariaz wrote:I for one dont care about the bible, but i seem to remember reading somewhere that the bible actually states somewhere (might be a matter of interpetation) that you cant decide to believe.

That's a matter outside of the scope of this thread. John Calvin promoted the idea of predestination, which is as you said. However, others deny this, or simply decide to say it is beyond our scope. (eg. Luther.) Let's not get into in house Christian arguments.

@Tyler: Am I trying to justify it? I didn't think I was... Also, quite frankly, there is no reason to argue over it, because there is no way to prove or disprove it.