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Jelle wrote: Communism has it's origins in the fact that people did NOT have the same rights, the more money, the more rights... Communism wanted to give the people equal etc etc etc
that live in Russia is good now, I don't know about that... but I guess it's better now than back than (thanks to Stalin).

Jelle

That would be Lenin, actually (not that it matters, but hey, no false information ;D )

Jelle wrote: About the internet-thingy...
Would he be able to do that? I mean how (technicly) would he do that? How did China do it?
If they can do that? Why can't they stop people downloading MP3's and other illegal stuff from the net?

The easiest way is to make the costs of the internet companies (providers, servers, etc) a lot higher (eg. by increasing taxes for them) They'll count that in their price, so the price'll go up too and less people'll use the internet, 'cause it'll be too expensive.

damonbrinkley wrote: Can you give any sort of evidence that he wants to
etc etc etc
nothing wrong with putting pressure on him.

Now what does Bush do? He's dictating his citizens what to look at, what to do, etc etc. That's what this topic's about. Not only Bush's a dictator, he's the biggest hypocrite I've ever met. He's threatening other countries with war because they have a certain kind of weapon (or just the possibility to have them), while he himself has a lot more of them. That's just wrong.

-Kon-Tiki-

No, I meant Stalin.

Anyway

Can you give any sort of evidence that he wants to dictate the whole world?

I was talking about things like
1. Telling Europe that Turkey must join the Europian Union. He's not, NOT, someone who can dicide that.
2. United Nations don't want another war, the UNO doesn't want the US to attac Iraq. Bush's comments: "Ok, I don't care. If I say war, it's war."
3. Remember Kyoto 1997-1998. Representatives of 160 countries went there to talk about the greenhouse effect. But the most powerful country of them all did not want to join. Why not? Bush likes economy better then nature.
Bush does not listen to the rest of the world. Sure, you can have your own opinion... But if the whole world says no, and you still say yes... ::) Do you know that when he get's out of his plane when he visites Belgium, he gets eggs thrown in his face?

Another thing I don't get about America:
1. On your coins is written: In god we trust.
2. A new president has to say while taking the oath: So help me god
I don't understand!!! ??? ??? Free country?


Jelle

PS: I don't want to heat things up here. Just my opinion, you know...

Jelle wrote: No, I meant Stalin.

Anyway

Can you give any sort of evidence that he wants to dictate the whole world?

I was talking about things like
1. Telling Europe that Turkey must join the Europian Union. He's not, NOT, someone who can dicide that.

Just because he wants Turkey to join the European Union doesn't mean they have to do it. People can have their opinions and suggestions can't they?

2. United Nations don't want another war, the UNO doesn't want the US to attac Iraq. Bush's comments: "Ok, I don't care. If I say war, it's war."
3. Remember Kyoto 1997-1998. Representatives of 160 countries went there to talk about the greenhouse effect. But the most powerful country of them all did not want to join. Why not? Bush likes economy better then nature.
Bush does not listen to the rest of the world.

Ummm. Bush wasn't president in 97-98.....

Sure, you can have your own opinion... But if the whole world says no, and you still say yes... ::) Do you know that when he get's out of his plane when he visites Belgium, he gets eggs thrown in his face?

Really? That's not very polite is it?

Another thing I don't get about America:
1. On your coins is written: In god we trust.
2. A new president has to say while taking the oath: So help me god
I don't understand!!! ??? ??? Free country?

It's what the country was founded upon and it's actually been the topic of many conversations in the past.

Ummm. Bush wasn't president in 97-98..

The plan was reduce production of CO[sub]2[/sub] so that in 2012 the total emission should be 5% lower then today. Bush has made some recent decisions so that the production of CO[sub]2[/sub] will increase! The U.S., with only 4% of the world’s population, produces 25% of the world’s greenhouse gases!

BTW: I don't think that cares about Sadam Hussein being a dictator (there are a lot of them in the world, and you are not making war in all those countries), he just cares about oil.

damonbrinkley wrote:Just because he wants Turkey to join the European Union doesn't mean they have to do it. People can have their opinions and suggestions can't they?

You seem to be defending and supporting Bush in all of his decisions and opinions. So you should be able to give us one good reason to let Turkey join the EU, although they don't even respect the human rights in that country. Just give me one good reason that has nothing to do with Bush having military bases in Turkey and wanting to attack Iraq for it's oil.

Sure, you can have your own opinion... But if the whole world says no, and you still say yes... ::) Do you know that when he get's out of his plane when he visites Belgium, he gets eggs thrown in his face?

Really? That's not very polite is it?

Yup, and Bill Gates gets pies in his face =p

Another thing I don't get about America:
1. On your coins is written: In god we trust.
2. A new president has to say while taking the oath: So help me god
I don't understand!!! ??? ??? Free country?

It's what the country was founded upon and it's actually been the topic of many conversations in the past.

Well it would be easy to change that via a new law no? In Belgium all crusifixes were taken out of courtrooms a couple of years ago.

United States is not a free country. Neither is Canada or a lot of other democratic countries for that matter. We're all subjucated to laws and if we don't cooperate, no matter our opinions, and caught we get jailed. Bush may be a hypocrite, but I bet he and his people know about this. A president may not be immune to justice, but he has influence over it. The only way to be free is to stage a revolution. Then there is anarchy, but then public safety is not guaranteed. To have freedom and order that requires a heck lot of responsibility from all of a country's inhabitants, which I think very few of us have. Conflict is in our natures and I think all nations have been created from need to protect themselves from conflict. The economy exits to ensure that our material possessions and estate are ours. Otherwise people will just take it and claim it as their own. After all that's what european pioneers did to America. They thought they were justified in claiming it as their own, because no aboriginal had claimed it on paper. Bush is just another descendant of those conceited and greedy aristocrats. He is a moron to think he can claim anything in this world as what is rightfully his. How can we justify being here at all, when we live on stolen soil? In fact, the land never really belonged to anyone. So how can anyone in his right mind, wage an entire nation (using resources taken from "owned" land) against another and can live with it?

Because it's in our nature. We are all egoists. The very proof is right here. We are all sitting on our asses in front of the computer, discussing this in the hopes of actually accomplishing something because we are powerless to do otherwise while some kid in a third world country is physically deformed because of lack of food, which is caused by some sort of centralized economy where the wealth is not redristibuted to the people. How many people in this thread can actually go out without the following: synthetic fabrics, canned foods, paper, artificial lighting, hygiene products, fresh foods sold on the market, ovens, dishwashers, dishes, utensils, watches, tv, radio, phones, mail routes, laundry washer and dryer ,automotive transport, a brick house built on a wooden frame, properly ventilated with drywall, insulation, gas heaters, plumbing, waterproofed basements and varnished floors...just to name a few.

Every vegetable you eat that is farm grown requires about at least one acre of deforestation and/or wetland drainage to land on your dinner plate. It takes about 10 times that space to feed a heifer every week which 40% of it's body weight will end up as food enough for maybe your average half a dozen nuclear families. A good part of that is put to waste(fats, bones, rancid meat, finnicky chidren not eating their dinner, forgotten leftovers, etc). The remaining 60% is then divided in two sections: the undesirables(more waste, no examples needed here) and the recyclables(industrial manufactured foods and animal byproducts). Now imagine having 60 billion people to feed. Where do we look for all this food?

The point is...no matter what we do, there will always be repercussions. Think your laws of chemistry here. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, it is only reshaped and recycled. So the real question here is: Would you rather live in a capitalist society where excess is the norm and has the potential to destroy itself in political and economical decadence and corruption? Or would you rather live foraging off the land, never knowing who might beat you to a pulp next without any knowledge of what centuries of heavily funded science have provided?

Could we change the subject? It's getting a little melodramatic here.

That was quite a rant 'Slade..

Bush is just another descendant of those conceited and greedy aristocrats.

Born into a rich family and given all the breaks, indeed. Who honestly thinks that Bush would have become President if not for his father? Not only that, if he wasn't a spoiled rich kid, he would have been shipped to Vietnam instead of to a cushy Texas National Guard post which he ended up going AWOL anyway.

He represents a conservative view of the world in which the best interests of the world are served in the hands of men. The problem is, the human ability to satisfy his own desires has grown to a critical mass: the capability of the world to continue producing is being exhausted. Things need to change from the overproduction and massive waste to a more sustainable distribution of resources, to ensure the health of our fellow human beings, and the ability of the Earth to sustain generations to come.

I think the biggest tragedy is that creating a more sustainable reality is certainly possible, but the rich nations of the world are too self-absorbed, too wasteful, and not compassionate enough to move humanity in this direction.

Bush promoted "compassionate conservatism" in his 2000 campaign. My response to that is "my @$$".

Yup, and Bill Gates gets pies in his face =p

When he announced a donation to India of $100 million over 10 years to help fight AIDS, they gave him an 8-foot tall condom. Appropriate, considering he's the world's biggest spreader of viruses.

Wow, this is pretty heavy man.

The bottom line: Bush is a redneck who deserves to be shot

redneck, maybe. Deserved to be shot? Hell no. He should be put in one of those wooden medieval shackles which trap both his head and his hands. You know the ones I'm talking about right? Well this contraption would be nailed to the floor outside and people would pass throwing overripe vegetables or fruit and whatever other substance which would make a nice "splot" effect on his face. Shooting him would make it too easy.

And sorry about the long post guys but that happens. And by that I mean often. Still can't believe it only took me 15 minutes to write it...