OSDev.org

XCHG wrote:Same story with Linux of course.

IIRC, there have been 30 year old tape drives with C source on them that have still compiled and worked under a modern linux system. Windows wasn't even around 30 years ago, so try that one. In fact, how's running a win3.1 program on vista going? Yeah, that's it.

retarded slow GUI on Linux.

When used properly, command line interfaces are faster that GUI's. They provide for more flexibility as well. (Also increasing their speed.)

Hi,

Firstly, I'd like to thank you for flame replying to my casually written, and unflaming post - I have some surplus bile at the moment so it's nice to be able to use it on something tangible.

Majority of programmers use Macs to write programs? Are you serious? Laughing I mean who would in their right minds use a Mac to write programs while they can't even say if their programs are going to be able to be run on the same OS after 2-3 years? I mean have you ever compared the number of software written for PC with a Windows OS and a Mac? There really is no competition. Windows of course wins by a far margin, period. That's why Mac OS doesn't have as many user software written for it as Windows. Same story with Linux of course. I would also blame the API of these Operating Systems as one of the reasons they repel programmers.

Never did I mention a majority. I said "Many".

I mean who would in their right minds use a Mac to write programs while they can't even say if their programs are going to be able to be run on the same OS after 2-3 years?

What exactly does this mean? MacOS hasn't really changed that much. It was always "UNIX-y", and now it's fully UNIX certified, so the API isn't going anywhere fast.

I mean have you ever compared the number of software written for PC with a Windows OS and a Mac?

Yes, because of course 100% of all software is written for the home user market . Have you considered the server market? Most servers run some brand of UNIX, and dev-ing on a *nix system makes sense to me. Have you also considered the web-dev market? What difference does your coding platform make on the end product? Not much. And macs are almost specifically designed for the web and graphics-minded.

I mean have you ever compared the number of software written for PC with a Windows OS and a Mac? There really is no competition. Windows of course wins by a far margin, period. That's why Mac OS doesn't have as many user software written for it as Windows.

Have you even read your argument through again?
"The amount of software written for windows outweighs that of the mac and linux".
"That's why MacOS doesn't have as much software written for it."

That reads to me as "The reason for A is A. QED". A clever proposition as it is tautologous, but unfortunately still means nothing.

I would also blame the API of these Operating Systems as one of the reasons they repel programmers.

Great. Care to cite some references? Or are you just pulling acronyms out of your arse? on a user level the API of a *nix system isn't *that* dissimilar to that of a windows system (with the notable exception of graphics libraries and lack of directx).

Summary:

A superb troll effort - I'd give it about a 7.5/10. Next time you could possibly attempt to disprove the existence of God or something to give you bonus marks.

(It should be noted that I don't actually *own* a Mac, I do most of my development on linux and most of my recreation (games) on windows. So don't call me biased.)

JamesM wrote:MacOS hasn't really changed that much. It was always "UNIX-y", and now it's fully UNIX certified, so the API isn't going anywhere fast.

Mac OS >= 10.0 are "Unix-y", previous versions... weren't even remotely close.

Brynet-Inc wrote:

JamesM wrote:MacOS hasn't really changed that much. It was always "UNIX-y", and now it's fully UNIX certified, so the API isn't going anywhere fast.

Mac OS >= 10.0 are "Unix-y", previous versions... weren't even remotely close.

Awww, fair enough!

JamesM wrote:

I would also blame the API of these Operating Systems as one of the reasons they repel programmers.

Great. Care to cite some references? Or are you just pulling acronyms out of your arse? on a user level the API of a *nix system isn't *that* dissimilar to that of a windows system (with the notable exception of graphics libraries and lack of directx).

Don't forget Cocoa. Go here for some relatively unbiased comparisons of .NET versus Cocoa development. Cocoa is nothing like POSIX...

Colonel Kernel wrote:

JamesM wrote:

I would also blame the API of these Operating Systems as one of the reasons they repel programmers.

Great. Care to cite some references? Or are you just pulling acronyms out of your arse? on a user level the API of a *nix system isn't *that* dissimilar to that of a windows system (with the notable exception of graphics libraries and lack of directx).

Don't forget Cocoa. Go here for some relatively unbiased comparisons of .NET versus Cocoa development. Cocoa is nothing like POSIX...

But, cocoa isn't the only environment available. There are others, including one called "POSIX", if the Cocoa wiki page is to be believed.

JamesM wrote:But, cocoa isn't the only environment available. There are others, including one called "POSIX", if the Cocoa wiki page is to be believed.

Yes. My point was that it isn't fair to compare Mac OS X as a development platform to Windows or Linux unless you consider Cocoa, not just POSIX.

I know exactly what the problem is that many people have with Microsoft. They just can't see their huge success. They would feel better if Microsoft was like Novell making a much less amount of money and supporting Open Source software. But bummer, too bad they don't

Colonel Kernel wrote:

JamesM wrote:But, cocoa isn't the only environment available. There are others, including one called "POSIX", if the Cocoa wiki page is to be believed.

Yes. My point was that it isn't fair to compare Mac OS X as a development platform to Windows or Linux unless you consider Cocoa, not just POSIX.

Ah right, in which case, point taken.

XCHG wrote:I know exactly what the problem is that many people have with Microsoft. They just can't see their huge success. They would feel better if Microsoft was like Novell making a much less amount of money and supporting Open Source software. But bummer, too bad they don't Laughing

That I don't disagree with. However, if you even look at my post you will see that that isn't the case with me. (In which case, may I add, that I would also hate Steve Jobs. Macs may not be bigger than Windows PCs, but the iPod (and possibly iPhone, too early to tell) has been a huge commercial success. Also in the case of the iPhone, the business practice of halving the price *just* after all the fanboys pay full whack would be enough to turn me off any company, if I was so minded.

01000101 wrote:The sinking ship is not Windows, I can assure you, and so can the millions of people who just bought a Dell or Gateway last year with Windows pre-loaded on it due to its superiority. I don't say it's superior, not me, but the companies that sell the mainstream PC's that say such things.

I long for the day when you can buy every PC product with the option to not have Windows preinstalled on it.

In the last 5 years, I bought five machines - three laptops, two tower - for myself or close friends.

Number of Windows licenses bought because there was no choice: Four.

Machines running the Windows that came preinstalled: Zero.

Option 2: Find another computer shop.
Voting with your feet is the best way to fix it.

Yayyak wrote:Option 2: Find another computer shop.
Voting with your feet is the best way to fix it.

Uh-huh... you happen to have a shop nearby that sells Windows-free, brand laptops with an on-par price / performance ratio over the counter?

I said "nearby". I don't like to mail-order laptops. I like to go there on my lunch break, grab the man by the tie and drag him across the counter until I can poke his nose right at the part that isn't working.

Speaking figuratively, of course.

I work in such a shop. Unfortunately, I'm not in Germany.

I know of a few shops here in Denmark. Close enough?

I have visited three companies , most of the companies use .Net as the primary platform . Most of the companies in technopark (Trivandrum , India ) mainly use Windows as the primary development platform . The bottom line is that if you want to make money writing software,you need to target windows . Most of the electronics companies however use embedded Linux . I wont say that Windows is perfect . Most of my senior collegues working in Microsoft will humbly agree to this all well . They get angry only when you make pointless and utterly ridiculous comments . Win32 API is well documented and it should'nt be dififcult to port older windows programs to newer versions of windows .

Open Source software is great for education . Microsoft has released many componets under Shared Source License . Free Software concept is great if the world is ideal ; unfortunately it is not . It is easy to see that people who originally wrote the software never gets any money , Only the distro fellows (they makes minor mods and sell it ) get the money .

Regards
Sandeep Mathew