OSDev.org

Candy wrote:You might just be missing a really good point - tax isn't just money being taken from you without reason.

The Netherlands has one of the best medical care solutions for everybody and it has a social network that catches you when you lose your job so you don't instantly plummet into poverty. Not to mention the education you didn't have to pay the full amount for when you were studying, which you are paying for now (for the education of new kids, that is).

I dont have to pay anything if i get sick and need to go to the doctor or hospital. i only need to pay for medication, and even that is supported by the publicservice, or what to call it.

I dont have to pay to study, actually i get paid for it.

if i dont have a job, i still get money, not much but more that enough if your rent isnt too high.

Yes, its quite nice. That is when you need it. When you dont it is quite enoying, especially if you earn alot of money, because then, if you want to work extra for some reason, ull have to pay 60% in tax! (or is it more?)

the health care system work, but it work very slow. I i get cancer i can rick wating for months before getting the proper treatment.

the social care system is allso nice to have, but it doesnt work very well.

a great deal of the taxpayers money is infact used on expenses that could easily be avoided, and that is... sad.

There are many problems, too many to justify such a high tax rate, even with all the benefits.

...You forgot to mention what country you're from!!

i wrote that in an earlier post, but im from Denmark

I = Jeg
Wrote = skrev
That (in this scenario) = Det
In = I
An = En
Earlier = Tidligere
Post = im not realy sure but Topic would be "Emne" and Reply would be "Svar"
But = Men
Im (i am) = Jeg er
From = Fra
Denmark = Danmark
Cheers = Skål

Heh, *D'oh!*

Zacariaz wrote:I dont have to pay anything if i get sick and need to go to the doctor or hospital. i only need to pay for medication, and even that is supported by the publicservice, or what to call it.

I dont have to pay to study, actually i get paid for it.

if i dont have a job, i still get money, not much but more that enough if your rent isnt too high.

Yes, its quite nice. That is when you need it. When you dont it is quite enoying, especially if you earn alot of money, because then, if you want to work extra for some reason, ull have to pay 60% in tax! (or is it more?)

We only pay 52% over the money we make over a certain amount, which I think was double the average salary (of 31000, so if you earn more than 62000 euros the part over 62000 is taxed at 52%). If you earn below a certain amount (4000 or 10000) you don't pay any taxes at all (for students and highschool kids). Basic tax (from that 4000 or 10000 starting point) is 38%.

There are also no state taxes, no canton tax (switzerland?), no other taxes. You pay income tax, you pay VAT (value added tax, BTW) and that's about it.

You get roads, clean air, safety, security, public transport, education, health, gossip about the royal family... Even when I earn 200000 a year, I'll still be fairly ok with paying that much. I just can't stand all the IT people complaining about paying 42 whole percents for nothing, after which they get into their leasecar and drive home on apparently free roads, listening to free music and breathing air that was cleaned for free.

the health care system work, but it work very slow. I i get cancer i can rick wating for months before getting the proper treatment.

Removing the money isn't going to fix that, I can assure you.

the social care system is allso nice to have, but it doesnt work very well.

a great deal of the taxpayers money is infact used on expenses that could easily be avoided, and that is... sad.

Everybody who thinks people that aren't working are just lazy bums that lay back and get loads of cash for free, they should try it for a month. You get barely enough to make a living, you live in a place nobody would really want to live since it's cheap, if you don't watch out you can't afford food at the end of the month and you're practically uneligible for half the jobs you could want to do, since you didn't have proper education (lack of money) or you can't get there since you can't afford a car.

Candy wrote:Everybody who thinks people that aren't working are just lazy bums that lay back and get loads of cash for free, they should try it for a month. You get barely enough to make a living, you live in a place nobody would really want to live since it's cheap, if you don't watch out you can't afford food at the end of the month and you're practically uneligible for half the jobs you could want to do, since you didn't have proper education (lack of money) or you can't get there since you can't afford a car.

Tell me about it, im one of them. Actually i have lived on and off the streats for like 6 years (not anymore), its amazing that it is even possible to have homeless people in a country like denmark.

The sad thing is that it doesnt take so much to get going again, but the kinda of help needed is rarely if ever offered. It is up to your self to fix your problems with those limit means you poses.

If the proper help was offered, not so many people would be on social support and the tax wouldnt need to be so high. Of course this is just one of many problems, but certainly one of the big ones.

Zacariaz: We have the opposite problem. A lot of the people on state welfare here are lazy bums who never do anything! The 'jobseeker's allowance' here is enough to feed and house a small family - council houses are subsidised by the government and aren't bad to live in (a large percentage of people do). The problem is giving them an incentive to actually get a job again!

JamesM wrote:Zacariaz: We have the opposite problem. A lot of the people on state welfare here are lazy bums who never do anything! The 'jobseeker's allowance' here is enough to feed and house a small family - council houses are subsidised by the government and aren't bad to live in (a large percentage of people do). The problem is giving them an incentive to actually get a job again!

Yeah... except they actually make sure you don't do that, and require you to try and get a job and after 6 months they start getting Job Interviews for you. Not from personal experience, in case anyone is cheeky enough to wonder.

Tyler wrote:

JamesM wrote:Zacariaz: We have the opposite problem. A lot of the people on state welfare here are lazy bums who never do anything! The 'jobseeker's allowance' here is enough to feed and house a small family - council houses are subsidised by the government and aren't bad to live in (a large percentage of people do). The problem is giving them an incentive to actually get a job again!

Yeah... except they actually make sure you don't do that, and require you to try and get a job and after 6 months they start getting Job Interviews for you. Not from personal experience, in case anyone is cheeky enough to wonder.

People do get round it though. Not from personal experience either, but I do know people in that situation who deliberately do badly in the arranged interviews then sweet talk more money out of the government.

lol thanks for the posts guys, even though the subject got a bit twisted into taxes. I get taxed roughly 45% for being young and a male haha.

os64dev: 42% taxes?!?!?!? Wow! I thought ours were high (UK) - we have bands: 0%, 7%, 22% and 40% - the 40% one is for over £30000 atm but I think they're changing it.

If you don't like the taxes, you can try moving to a different Local Government Area (the Australian equivalent of counties) which may be 10-20 minutes away from where you are living now, because each local government uses a slightly different system (and some all the way out in the country don't charge any tax at all IIRC).

the health care system work, but it work very slow. I i get cancer i can rick wating for months before getting the proper treatment.

The health care system here is weird. You can be covered by either private or public health insurance (I have by private health because I'm still covered by my parents'), but I don't really see the difference between the two except;
- You have the choice between public and private hospitals.
- In a public hospital, you can either be admitted as a public patient (all treatment/medication/food is free) or private patient (you have to pay, but usually covered by insurance). I think private patients get higher priority because hospitals know they can make money off them.

Zacariaz: We have the opposite problem. A lot of the people on state welfare here are lazy bums who never do anything! The 'jobseeker's allowance' here is enough to feed and house a small family - council houses are subsidised by the government and aren't bad to live in (a large percentage of people do). The problem is giving them an incentive to actually get a job again!

Same here! But we have homeless people too. I don't know how that works, maybe they were blacklisted from council housing? At least homeless people here don't starve. We have vans that drive around the capital cities giving out soups and stuff (we had to donate cans of soup at high school, except some people were stupid and bought in cans of pineapple or tomatoes).

MessiahAndrw wrote:

the health care system work, but it work very slow. I i get cancer i can rick wating for months before getting the proper treatment.

The health care system here is weird. You can be covered by either private or public health insurance (I have by private health because I'm still covered by my parents'), but I don't really see the difference between the two except;
- You have the choice between public and private hospitals.
- In a public hospital, you can either be admitted as a public patient (all treatment/medication/food is free) or private patient (you have to pay, but usually covered by insurance). I think private patients get higher priority because hospitals know they can make money off them.

There is no question that pritave is better than public, and i dont think it will ever be any different.
One of the courses is that private insurance often dont cover everything completely, eg. you have to spend an insignificant amount of money, but still that is enough for you not to go get your foot x-rayed everytime it hurts.
Health insurance by the way dont have to be expensive, even if it cover everything.

MessiahAndrw wrote:

Zacariaz: We have the opposite problem. A lot of the people on state welfare here are lazy bums who never do anything! The 'jobseeker's allowance' here is enough to feed and house a small family - council houses are subsidised by the government and aren't bad to live in (a large percentage of people do). The problem is giving them an incentive to actually get a job again!

Same here! But we have homeless people too. I don't know how that works, maybe they were blacklisted from council housing? At least homeless people here don't starve. We have vans that drive around the capital cities giving out soups and stuff (we had to donate cans of soup at high school, except some people were stupid and bought in cans of pineapple or tomatoes).

believe it or not, but some people actually choose to live on the street, most of them more or less... confused (insane), but some actually completely sane. They at some point become tired of the world they live in and flee from it to the street, which may not be far away, but still, it a completely different world. Easyer in many ways. No expectation, no responcebility, etc.

Ya, i know its hrad to understand Im glad i dont understand it.

Zacariaz wrote:I dont have to pay to study, actually i get paid for it.

You (or your parents etc.) didn't have to pay even a 0.01 $, DKK (or even SKK if you like ) to enter the elementary, middle- or highschool ? You've got to be kidding!

inflater wrote:

Zacariaz wrote:I dont have to pay to study, actually i get paid for it.

You (or your parents etc.) didn't have to pay even a 0.01 $, DKK (or even SKK if you like ) to enter the elementary, middle- or highschool ? You've got to be kidding!

Education is free here too. You can go to primary, secondary and university without any extra money (you get a small loan from the government when you go to university that only gets paid back when you get a decent job).

inflater wrote:

Zacariaz wrote:I dont have to pay to study, actually i get paid for it.

You (or your parents etc.) didn't have to pay even a 0.01 $, DKK (or even SKK if you like ) to enter the elementary, middle- or highschool ? You've got to be kidding!

The most amazin thing is that you actually pet money while under edducation (not elementary and if still living at your parrents place you dont get very much either). I think yo get the equevalent to $800-1000 after tax is payed, but it is allmost impossible to survive on this alone.