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Apparently nothing.Rusky wrote:Alright then, what has Microsoft done that you don't consider evil?onlyonemac wrote:I blanketly discard anything with the word "Microsoft" in it.
The topic about Ubuntu subsystem for Windows is relevant, but what we've done here (because I'm also guilty) is a total mess. I would really like to get back on the topic, but that seems impossible.tjmonk15 wrote:Honestly, at this point onlyonemac is nothing but a toxic member inciting BS arguments thru nothing more than his childish ignorance. Why hasn't he been banned?
- Monk
P.S. Or atleast why has this side convo not been moved to the auto-delete forum? (It has absolutely zero relevance in OSDev, or even general programming as its all pure BS rhetoric.)
I am totally against anyone being banned just because they hold views that I think are silly. We're all a bit silly when we are young and I'd rather have the chance to refute untruths than just suppressing them.tjmonk15 wrote:Honestly, at this point onlyonemac is nothing but a toxic member inciting BS arguments thru nothing more than his childish ignorance. Why hasn't he been banned?
It still tells you quite a bit about the design of Windows for it to be capable of crashing so easily. I've only had two Linux kernel panics in about five years, and one was because my root filesystem was on an NFS server with a firewall blocking the connection from the client and the other was because I ran out of memory trying to transcode video on a machine with only 256 MB of RAM (with swapping disabled).zdz wrote:You have to understand that most BSODs are caused by faulty drivers, not by the OS. Have you had the curiosity to look at the memory dump to pinpoint the actual problem? I've never experienced BSODs caused directly by a Windows driver. Also, long boot times, weird behaviour, unexpected BSODs, there might have been some malware around. I had an old laptop (i5, 4G RAM, can't remember anything else) which booted Windows 8.1 in 15-20 seconds. This tells nothing.
We ran a lot of different tests on our drivers and there are crashes that reproduce in such weird condition that you can only ask yourself if we can catch them all. Sometimes it's not even the fault of one driver, but some weird interaction between two or more. You can't summarize it to "I had a friend who had a BSOD".
It only takes a little thought to realize that there is very little chance that merely not using a computer for a while can somehow cause an OS installation to be magically corrupted. (Although a hardware fault - say faulty RAM - could have this effect.)onlyonemac wrote:The crash was clearly related to how long it had been since he had last booted the system.
Which it will happily do because it will ignore an NTFS partition saying "please don't mount me unless you plan on restoring saved system state first" and then go ahead and start screwing around with the filesystem. The saved state gets corrupted, and the next time the Windows install tries to boot, the whole thing goes down because some system it didn't know about decided to ruin its known good system state.iansjack wrote:(except, possible, that Ubuntu managed to corrupt a Windows installation on the same computer)
I haven't had a BSOD on any of my several Windows installations for well over 5 years.onlyonemac wrote:I've only had two Linux kernel panics in about five years
I suppose you understand how the kernel works, right? There is this big chunk of resources shared by all the kernel mode code. And if one such kernel mode piece of code happens to be buggy and, let's count just a few things: access memory it had freed, or stay too long at a high IRQL level, or is corrupting other driver's code / data or... (I can go on and on) how is this the OS design fault? How is Linux protecting your system from a faulty driver / rootkit / hardware problem?onlyonemac wrote:It still tells you quite a bit about the design of Windows for it to be capable of crashing so easily. I've only had two Linux kernel panics in about five years, and one was because my root filesystem was on an NFS server with a firewall blocking the connection from the client and the other was because I ran out of memory trying to transcode video on a machine with only 256 MB of RAM (with swapping disabled).zdz wrote:You have to understand that most BSODs are caused by faulty drivers, not by the OS. Have you had the curiosity to look at the memory dump to pinpoint the actual problem? I've never experienced BSODs caused directly by a Windows driver. Also, long boot times, weird behaviour, unexpected BSODs, there might have been some malware around. I had an old laptop (i5, 4G RAM, can't remember anything else) which booted Windows 8.1 in 15-20 seconds. This tells nothing.
We ran a lot of different tests on our drivers and there are crashes that reproduce in such weird condition that you can only ask yourself if we can catch them all. Sometimes it's not even the fault of one driver, but some weird interaction between two or more. You can't summarize it to "I had a friend who had a BSOD".
Also, I can guarantee that my friend's laptop had no malware on it. You don't know him, but I do and he is the most security-conscious user that I have ever encountered. The crash was clearly related to how long it had been since he had last booted the system.
Whoch is weird, because Lubuntu will refuse to mount a NTFS partition if the Windows crashed, or went through a forced shut down or is in hybernate. You have to go the extra mile and force it to do this.iansjack wrote:
(except, possible, that Ubuntu managed to corrupt a Windows installation on the same computer)
Which it will happily do because it will ignore an NTFS partition saying "please don't mount me unless you plan on restoring saved system state first" and then go ahead and start screwing around with the filesystem. The saved state gets corrupted, and the next time the Windows install tries to boot, the whole thing goes down because some system it didn't know about decided to ruin its known good system state.
Well, people have been fncking up and with date/time and calendars for thousands of years now.zdz wrote:Explain to me how can a crash happen because you haven't booted your OS in a long time? I'm curious what's the logic behind this.
Does your guarantee that the friend's laptop had no malware on it include a guarantee that the laptop didn't have GRUB2?onlyonemac wrote:It still tells you quite a bit about the design of Windows for it to be capable of crashing so easily. I've only had two Linux kernel panics in about five years, and one was because my root filesystem was on an NFS server with a firewall blocking the connection from the client and the other was because I ran out of memory trying to transcode video on a machine with only 256 MB of RAM (with swapping disabled).zdz wrote:You have to understand that most BSODs are caused by faulty drivers, not by the OS. Have you had the curiosity to look at the memory dump to pinpoint the actual problem? I've never experienced BSODs caused directly by a Windows driver. Also, long boot times, weird behaviour, unexpected BSODs, there might have been some malware around. I had an old laptop (i5, 4G RAM, can't remember anything else) which booted Windows 8.1 in 15-20 seconds. This tells nothing.
We ran a lot of different tests on our drivers and there are crashes that reproduce in such weird condition that you can only ask yourself if we can catch them all. Sometimes it's not even the fault of one driver, but some weird interaction between two or more. You can't summarize it to "I had a friend who had a BSOD".
Also, I can guarantee that my friend's laptop had no malware on it. You don't know him, but I do and he is the most security-conscious user that I have ever encountered. The crash was clearly related to how long it had been since he had last booted the system.
If there was such a fault in Windows we would have heard many more reports of similar happenings. It's a question of probabilities; without access to the computer and/or details of the BSOD it is impossible to say what happened. But it is an order of magnitude more likely that the cause was an external influence (Ubuntu screwing with the Linux partition, probably with help from the user) rather than some one-in-a-billion date-related bug in Windows.alexfru wrote:Well, people have been fncking up and with date/time and calendars for thousands of years now.zdz wrote:Explain to me how can a crash happen because you haven't booted your OS in a long time? I'm curious what's the logic behind this.
You can't rule out some stupid sh!t like this or this or this or this. Screwy updates (or update processes) are not unheard of. You may get "lucky".
The thing is, we're in the business of genetically engineering bugs. The toughest survive and lurk around in the darkness. You can ship a product with race conditions that nobody ever sees in the field but they are there in the source code (I've witnessed this happen in different products at different companies) or you just see some rare and inexplicable crash dumps and have no idea how that could ever happen. I mean, the probability can be very low as well. A couple of years back I was installing updates on Windows 7 on my work PC. It was taking time and it was Friday night, so I just left it enjoying itself over the weekend. Monday morning it was still installing the updates. About to finish, showing 100% progress. I waited a little more (like an hour) and it still didn't finish. Since it must've clearly been broken by that time I figured it wouldn't make things any worse if I poked it a little. So I pressed ctrl+alt+del (as I'd do in the olden win9x days) and guess what? I got to log in. The thing had finished with the updates as normal, but due to a bug the screen was wrong. That's an interesting bug. I've been using Windows 7 (and Vista as well) since before RTM. And I never saw updates behave that way. Nor had I ever heard about it before. Updates hogging the CPU and stuff like that, broken updates, all that is pretty widespread. Hisenupdates like this are rare.iansjack wrote:If there was such a fault in Windows we would have heard many more reports of similar happenings. It's a question of probabilities; without access to the computer and/or details of the BSOD it is impossible to say what happened. But it is an order of magnitude more likely that the cause was an external influence (Ubuntu screwing with the Linux partition, probably with help from the user) rather than some one-in-a-billion date-related bug in Windows.
A Windows Update Bugcheck will usually end up with an option to roll back that update at the next boot - starting with Windows 8(.1?) you won't even get to the loading screen and a message telling you about this will appear. I can't guarantee it will always do this, but I've never seen it not do this.alexfru wrote:Well, people have been fncking up and with date/time and calendars for thousands of years now.zdz wrote:Explain to me how can a crash happen because you haven't booted your OS in a long time? I'm curious what's the logic behind this.
You can't rule out some stupid sh!t like this or this or this or this. Screwy updates (or update processes) are not unheard of. You may get "lucky".
So what you want to say is that an open source project isn't perfect? Oh noNote that it is not Microsofts fault that GRUB2 is a mis-designed pile of puss that screws up security. In a similar way it's not Ubuntu's fault that GRUB2 is so ugly that it needs "auto-magic scripting" just to shield end users from the sheer horror of GRUB's configuration mess.
Windows should stop doing whatever it does in order to achieve boot time security (I can't say I'm 100% ok with some things it does - but that is another topic) and just use GRUB2 as a bootloader. I'm mostly joking, ignore this paragraph 
I'm not saying that rare bugs don't occur, just that - with no other information - this is not the most likely explanation. For every anecdote that you relate of rare Windows bugs I could give you links to a dozen posts on Tom's Hardware (for example) where people have screwed up a Windows installation by installing Linux alongside it.alexfru wrote:The thing is, we're in the business of genetically engineering bugs. The toughest survive and lurk around in the darkness.