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Tyler wrote:

mathematician wrote:

Tyler wrote:Ooh i have to rephrase again... Christ did not start Christianity in the sense that he didn't write the bible. The Bible of course was written some few hundred years after his life by people who never met him. Obviously Christ was a Raving Lunatic, i'm sure you would think the same of me if i attempted to convince you that my old man was God and that my Moral Believes were some how Universal.

I would think you were either a raving lunatic, or possessed of an ego the size of a football stadium, and probably both. Unless you could convince me otherwise. That certainly wouldn't be easy, but depending upon the veracity of your claim it wouldn't necessarily be impossible. Do you think that the strict monotheists of first century Judaism would have been easy to convince?

You think i am a lunatic because i don't beleive fiction? You really should research the current definition of lunatic. And my ego has nothing todo with this, i'm sure you would think anyone who claimed to be the son of god was crazy, not just me.

Love of mike, man. You're a raving lunatic, because you mock something you know nothing about. Moreover, you mock those who know something in the subject simply because they do. You should learn to respect other people's beliefs.

Tyler wrote:

mathematician wrote:

Tyler wrote:Ooh i have to rephrase again... Christ did not start Christianity in the sense that he didn't write the bible. The Bible of course was written some few hundred years after his life by people who never met him. Obviously Christ was a Raving Lunatic, i'm sure you would think the same of me if i attempted to convince you that my old man was God and that my Moral Believes were some how Universal.

I would think you were either a raving lunatic, or possessed of an ego the size of a football stadium, and probably both. Unless you could convince me otherwise. That certainly wouldn't be easy, but depending upon the veracity of your claim it wouldn't necessarily be impossible. Do you think that the strict monotheists of first century Judaism would have been easy to convince?

You think i am a lunatic because i don't beleive fiction? You really should research the current definition of lunatic. And my ego has nothing todo with this, i'm sure you would think anyone who claimed to be the son of god was crazy, not just me.

Read it again, but, before you do that, read the post it was a response to.

deX(ter) wrote: Christians are now trying to mix the Bible story about creating Adam and Eve by God with Darvin's theory, but it's impossible, I think...
These theories are the opposite! People have to choose if they believe the Bible or the theory of evolution...

Does the name Francis Collins mean anything to you? Perhaps less well known (although only slightly) Sir Arthur Peacock, John Hapgood or Robert Winston? (All biologists - the last one not a Christian, but an Orthodox Jew.)

i am personally a Christian. i could call myself a "philosopher". I do have the ability i noticed, of empathy. I completely understand atheism, although i do not believe it. It [is*] hard to accept what you cannot understand, see, or touch. After all, everything we do in our daily lives involve either fact or fiction. It is true that you can feel everything you touch (unless you are paralyzed, but you still can touch). Our senses are only 3-dimensional. Can a two dimensional object sense that we are drawing them? Who are we to discern what lies beyond our understanding?[/i]

Alboin wrote: Love of mike, man. You're a raving lunatic, because you mock something you know nothing about. Moreover, you mock those who know something in the subject simply because they do. You should learn to respect other people's beliefs.

I'm confused... at the begining of this argument it appears you are saying i don't understand because we have no definitive answer to the question of God; a given considering i have excellent knowledge on the actualities of religion itself. Yet, you then go on to claim that i am mocking people who know something about the subject, a slight impossibility if no one knows anything about the subject.

Also, i have an amazing amount of respect for other's believes, many people i respect beyond all are highly religious, and i would not attempt to belittle you or move you from your faith. I won't lie about my opinions of the founders of your believes or the truths behind them though. For you to call me a raving lunatic because of my believes is far more insulting that my opinions of some liars that lived 900 years ago you never met.

Tyler wrote:

Alboin wrote: Love of mike, man. You're a raving lunatic, because you mock something you know nothing about. Moreover, you mock those who know something in the subject simply because they do. You should learn to respect other people's beliefs.

Also, i have an amazing amount of respect for other's believes, many people i respect beyond all are highly religious, and i would not attempt to belittle you or move you from your faith. I won't lie about my opinions of the founders of your believes or the truths behind them though. For you to call me a raving lunatic because of my believes is far more insulting that my opinions of some liars that lived 900 years ago you never met.

I didn't call you a raving lunatic because of your beliefs. I called you a raving lunatic, because you mocked other's beliefs. Like using the word 'liars' to refer to Christ. Is that tone really necessary?

Also, what are these 'truths' you are talking about?

Alboin wrote:Also, what are these 'truths' you are talking about?

A truth is something that is not a lie, or false. I did state that those said truths were my opinion. As in, the truth in my opinion is that God doesn't exist and Jesus was not his son, just a nuttah, each to their own though.

All biologists - the last one not a Christian, but an Orthodox Jew.

There are many scientists who believe god even if they work on something which is a bit in the opposite of the religion. But it doesn't mean a good scientist is a good philosopher... I've got a friend who is absolutely fascinated with physics. He is a bit like a maniac about it and he is a Christian. One day he started thinking about something, counting, etc. And when he finished and had an idea for the solution, he noticed that it would conflict with religions' ideas. And he didn't stop thinking.. He only counted more and more. And even if he believes his own idea, he still considers himself a Christian.

Ufff.. I hope you have understood me, even in my 'dialect' of English...

//EDIT : Oh.. You mean the theory of 'Theistic Evolution'.. Yeah.. You're right.. . But Francis Collins doesn't believe the idea of creation neither.. I meant that the EXACT idea of Creationism is the opposite of Darvin's theory. But you're right, it's possible to mix those two .

1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
4. the state or character of being true.
5. actuality or actual existence.
6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.
7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.
8. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived experience: the basic truths of life.
9. agreement with a standard or original.
10. accuracy, as of position or adjustment.
11. Archaic. fidelity or constancy.


It might be the truth if the context only covered you, but it covers more than just you.

Tyler wrote: ..snip..I did state that those said truths were my opinion...snip..

Then how are they truths. The only interpretation I can take is that you mean that; it is true that they are your opinion, which is quite redundant and idiotic in my opinion when you could have just said they are my opinion.

Not trying to force the idea of God existing on you, but instead analyzing your statement.

Have you ever considered that your problems can be attributed to your way of life? Take for instance your mom. Sounds like she gave you , for lack of a better word, a interesting life filled with many contradictions. I think your life as you were younger lacked truth. It might be hard to think that there is a God if you mom cared more about a drug than taking care of you?

Kevin McGuire wrote:
1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
4. the state or character of being true.
5. actuality or actual existence.
6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.
7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.
8. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived experience: the basic truths of life.
9. agreement with a standard or original.
10. accuracy, as of position or adjustment.
11. Archaic. fidelity or constancy.


It might be the truth if the context only covered you, but it covers more than just you.

Tyler wrote: ..snip..I did state that those said truths were my opinion...snip..

Then how are they truths. The only interpretation I can take is that you mean that; it is true that they are your opinion, which is quite redundant and idiotic in my opinion when you could have just said they are my opinion.

Not trying to force the idea of God existing on you, but instead analyzing your statement.

Have you ever considered that your problems can be attributed to your way of life? Take for instance your mom. Sounds like she gave you , for lack of a better word, a interesting life filled with many contradictions. I think your life as you were younger lacked truth. It might be hard to think that there is a God if you mom cared more about a drug than taking care of you?

Nope... i've lived with my Dad for most of my life and he is for lack of a better word, a genius. We don't believe in God because the idea is absurd and i have the enlightened sense to not require lies to make myself feel better. Also one can have an opinion on what the truth is. That is exactly how i worded it. My opinion is that the truth is Jesus was crazy. The fact is, God doesn't exist, people only have doubt because they spend their lifes been told it, the same reason people once believed the world was flat, doesn't make them stupid, just wrong.

Tyler wrote:The truth in my opinion is that God doesn't exist and Jesus was not his son, just a nuttah, each to their own though.

If that were truth, there must be proof for that.

Since there apparently isn't, its a belief, rather than truth.

Hey, but you know my reason for believing is because I ran into troubled times internally and could not find a answer to my own behavior. I still can not find a answer to it. I just keep a little faith that God set the universe in motion and out of this comes a plan for me. It might not be a plan with a lot of glory, but it is something I can live with.

I dig ditches for a living so I think he must have had a plan. Just not sure what it is yet, but I assume one day I will find out when it is all coming closer to a end.

You might have noticed I used 'little faith' which shows most likely I am unsure about things. I left it with out editing it out just because it is the truth.

If that were truth, there must be proof for that.

Yes, you're right, but there's no proof for that Jesus WAS son of God neither. It's also only a belief.

The fact is, God doesn't exist, people only have doubt because they spend their lifes been told it, the same reason people once believed the world was flat, doesn't make them stupid, just wrong.

I don't believe in God neither, but it is NOT a fact. There's no proof for that, but IMO it's more realistic idea than that the God exists...

Combuster wrote:

Tyler wrote:The truth in my opinion is that God doesn't exist and Jesus was not his son, just a nuttah, each to their own though.

If that were truth, there must be proof for that.

Since there apparently isn't, its a belief, rather than truth.

Actually by scientific standards, the fact God is not there, the fact that the stories were written by men, the fact that religions are on obvious method of population control are just a few of a beyond all reasonable doubt proofs that God is not real. Not that it matters, i am sure you couldn't prove to me that the Lord of the Rings trilogy never really happened, but we all know it didn't, because it is fiction.

Actually by scientific standards.

Great. A scientist. Now we get some facts.

the fact God is not there

Must be the title of this new paper.

the fact that the stories were written by men

Well. We already knew that? <Kevin looks around..>

the fact that religions are on obvious method of population control

Well.. Coke is a obvious method to decay teeth so dentist can make more money. A virus is obviously written by the anti-virus software industry. The electric cars are obviously being paid off in a attempt to keep the fossil fuel companies making a profit. A clock is a obvious invention by a company to get more production from workers?

beyond all reasonable doubt proofs that God is not real.

Hmm.. Where you sniffing the glue again?

Not that it matters.

Oh. Now.. We go all this way and it does not matter. Well.. Whats your point?

i am sure you couldn't prove to me that the Lord of the Rings trilogy never really happened

Why would I want to waste my time doing that?

but we all know it didn't, because it is fiction.

Well. I was about to answer it. Then you answered it for me.

P.S.: He is going to be a little mad, but it was funny.