what IDE and compiler do you use?

[Solar]

Well, not really off-topic...

Let me make a bold statement, and note the big fat IMHO:

Personally, I would rate anyone who thinks "Notepad" or "WordPad" when he reads "your favourite text editor" as "hobbyist / novice", and certainly not experienced enough to start an OS project.

I simply cannot believe that anyone who had worked his way through several megabytes of source (and thus has the experience to do something as big and complex as an OS) would still use them, or a "naked" vi, for that matter. Those are the editors you use in a pinch because nothing else is installed. But we write Makefiles, we use version-control software and debuggers because they improve our productivity, and the same goes for text editors.

IMHO, remember.

[Brynet-Inc]

Well, not really off-topic...

Let me make a bold statement, and note the big fat IMHO:

Personally, I would rate anyone who thinks "Notepad" or "WordPad" when he reads "your favourite text editor" as "hobbyist / novice", and certainly not experienced enough to start an OS project.

I simply cannot believe that anyone who had worked his way through several megabytes of source (and thus has the experience to do something as big and complex as an OS) would still use them, or a "naked" vi, for that matter. Those are the editors you use in a pinch because nothing else is installed. But we write Makefiles, we use version-control software and debuggers because they improve our productivity, and the same goes for text editors.

IMHO, remember.

Words of wisdom.. I'd usually put on a few paragraphs of anti-Microsoft statements

Although vi is used by lots of people for developing software Solar..

vi is a screen-oriented text editor computer program written by Bill Joy in 1976 for an early BSD release.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi

And it was written for programmers, And includes lots of advanced modes. (Try reading the manual Solar)..
I do agree Microsoft's text-editors would not be adequate or useful for a true programmer.

Again, Check out SciTE/Scintilla or if you absolutely need to use Windows (To play your childish DirectX games) Notepad++ is viable and uses Scintilla engine. (Or just get a SciTE Win32 binary..)

http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html
http://notepad-plus.sf.net/

[Candy]

Personally, I would rate anyone who thinks "Notepad" or "WordPad" when he reads "your favourite text editor" as "hobbyist / novice", and certainly not experienced enough to start an OS project.

I simply cannot believe that anyone who had worked his way through several megabytes of source (and thus has the experience to do something as big and complex as an OS) would still use them, or a "naked" vi, for that matter. Those are the editors you use in a pinch because nothing else is installed. But we write Makefiles, we use version-control software and debuggers because they improve our productivity, and the same goes for text editors.

For work I use three large editing suites that each have their own way of working etc. For home work I use a slimmed down version of Emacs, of which I still don't quite use all the features, combined with GPM or X text pasting. I honestly feel this both gets me closer to the code (more intuitive feel about the code) and that it keeps me sharper to make the code legible, clear and to not overbloat the files. My home files are on median about 300 lines. My work files have been over 3000 lines and a lot less reviewable.

If your files contain significantly more than 500 lines of code, they're doing too much. Split it up.

If your code lines can't be read without syntax highlighting, it's not clear. Make it clear, split up statements and so forth.

If your code is unmaintainable in a text editor that doesn't allow you to have 80 files open at the same time (or that's not optimized for it) or that strongly enforces using typing aides etc, you need to learn what encapsulation is and how to properly apply it.

Bit offtopic but: If your code generates warnings on the compiler you use for it yourself, fix them. Set the warning level high and disable only the warnings that you consciously and knowingly disable.

Of course, big fat IMHO below here, but these views do represent how I view others people's work as well. The line count is a guesstimate for C++, assembly files tend to be legible until a bit longer (800 about) and other languages such as Prolog and Haskell tend to lose legibility a lot quicker (100-200 lines). Exceptions for awkwardly structured table-like files are ok, as well as exceptions the other way around for very complex functions.

[Solar]

Although vi is used by lots of people for developing software Solar..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi

And it was written for programmers, And includes lots of advanced modes. (Try reading the manual Solar)..

Try reading my post. Have you ever encountered a "naked" vi, i.e. without all that nifty preconfiguration? In that mode, not even the cursor keys work as expected.

That being said, I do use vim daily when I have to make a quick edit. Don't get lured into thinking that everyone who voices criticism just hasn't tried the alternatives.

Again, Check out SciTE/Scintilla or if you absolutely need to use Windows...

Been there, done that, didn't like it. I'm an UltraEdit user since version 7.10, and always came back after trying some other editor.

[Brynet-Inc]

Been there, done that, didn't like it. I'm an UltraEdit user since version 7.10, and always came back after trying some other editor.

Bah This? http://www.ultraedit.com/

Closed source and it's trail-ware.. You must not of been looking hard enough for a valuable editor.

I wouldn't trust anything that claims being Microsoft Certified.

From the screenshots.. maybe you would like this: http://www.hardl.de/fldev/index.php

[distantvoices]

Hmmm ... I canna claim to be happy about "what editor do you use" discussions ...

Real Professionalists use the tool which is best suited for the current job.

say: if I code in c/c++ - at home - I use kate. It is cool, it has syntax highlighting and it gets out of my way.

if I code some oracle pl/sql procedure, I use jdeveloper. This has pl/sql syntax highlighting, performs the offload-to-database-and-have-it-compile-the-crap stuff for me - and gets out of my way too. It eases doing stuff to a great extent and increases productivity.

I could continue this list to any lenght, but I am a lazy brat today. *gg*

@Brynet-Inc: hehe, good tempered and cheerful as ever you are, eh?

[Solar]

Closed source and it's trail-ware.. You must not of been looking hard enough for a valuable editor.

Somehow I was expecting this one.

• UltraEdit helps me immensely in getting my work done, both in office and at home.

• I don't have any desire to see the source, since I don't have the time or the energy to do development work on tools. (When was the last time you reviewed, or even looked, at the source of your text editor? Not to speak of modifying the source.)

• I came to know the author as being more receptive for constructive criticism than either the jEdit or Kate projects (the other two I ever bothered to get into contact with). He reacted within 24 hours to any of the about a dozen mails I sent him since UltraEdit v7, implemented one feature request, patiently explained two features I thought were missing to me, and gave me an excellent reason why he wouldn't implement another feature. In the same time, the jEdit author told me he "couldn't be bothered" with a certain feature (which was already existing in UltraEdit), and the Kate team didn't even bother to react at all when people complained about the project feature gone missing in v3.5.

All in all, I consider UltraEdit to be an excellent product, and I don't have a problem with paying for software if it is good and the price tag is appropriate. If you consider "Open Source" to be a value in and of itself, that's your thing.

I wouldn't trust anything that claims being Microsoft Certified.

I used UE well before that certification. And while you "wouldn't trust" it and I couldn't care less one way or another, that certification enabled UE to enter the workstations of many companies that wouldn't touch a "downloadable" software with pincers from five feet away otherwise, including, thankfully, my employer, so I have a decent editor available at work, too.

From the screenshots.. maybe you would like this: http://www.hardl.de/fldev/index.php

Come on. You cannot be serious. A source tarball that doesn't even compile out-of-the-box because of four unsatisfied dependencies? Pre-1.0? Recommended because of a passing resemblence of the screenshots?

You must value "Open Source" very highly to suggest such an "alternative"...

[Brynet-Inc]

I don't have any desire to see the source, since I don't have the time or the energy to do development work on tools. (When was the last time you reviewed, or even looked, at the source of your text editor? Not to speak of modifying the source.)

Actually I often have to make modification's and tweaks to software written for Linux to run decently on OpenBSD (And FreeBSD). Quite a few Linux developers love to use certain ifdef's and Linux includes.

(And about the FLDev program, I was just posting random editors but it's definitely not hard to find better alternatives..)

@distantvoices, Indeed!!, This all amuses me in every aspect, I do respect 99% of the members here, It's just funny to see the reaction of the masses. I have about 70%~ of the forum hating me for believing open source solutions are superior when compared with commercial ones.

[Solar]

(And about the FLDev program, I was just posting random editors but it's definitely not hard to find better alternatives..)

As I said, being FOSS doesn't add much to the score of an editor in my book, and I haven't found an editor that's up-to-par with UE so far, let alone "better". Show me, I'd be enlightened. No, SciTE doesn't count.

I have about 70%~ of the forum hating me for believing open source solutions are superior when compared with commercial ones.

I don't hate you. If I have a choice between two otherwise identical software titles, I'd chose the FOSS one, too, simply because it doesn't substract from what I can spend on my family. But I am strongly opposed to the notion that software is automatically "crap" just because it's commercial, or that "being FOSS" makes up for deficiencies in functionality.

[earlz]

Real Professionalists use the tool which is best suited for the current job.

say: if I code in c/c++ - at home - I use kate. It is cool, it has syntax highlighting and it gets out of my way.

if I code some oracle pl/sql procedure, I use jdeveloper. This has pl/sql syntax highlighting, performs the offload-to-database-and-have-it-compile-the-crap stuff for me - and gets out of my way too. It eases doing stuff to a great extent and increases productivity.

or you could put it all in Code::Blocks
supports a ton of filetypes out of the box..and you can put in any compiler fairly easy, though the "select compiler options" won't work(have to specify them under "other options:")

[Dex]

I have about 70%~ of the forum hating me for believing open source solutions are superior when compared with commercial ones.

I don't hate you. If I have a choice between two otherwise identical software titles, I'd chose the FOSS one, too, simply because it doesn't substract from what I can spend on my family. But I am strongly opposed to the notion that software is automatically "crap" just because it's commercial, or that "being FOSS" makes up for deficiencies in functionality.

@Solar and Brynet-Inc, I think the pair of you should be the best of friends, as the both of you have alot in common, like lurking on a OS dev forum, but not having the skill to make a OS.
A programmer is someone who code something (usefull) in a programming language, not some one who lurks on a coding forum, trying to tell others, they are using the wrong editor, or OS.
As for linux or other unix ****, if it was so good why do 99% of people not even want it ,even if its free ?.

IF I WAS A MODERATER HERE I WOULD BAN THE BOTH OF YOU

[distantvoices]

@Solar and Brynet-Inc, I think the pair of you should be the best of friends, as the both of you have alot in common, like lurking on a OS dev forum, but not having the skill to make a OS.

@Dex: Now, hold on your loose tongue, MAN. From what evidence do you judge that neither of the both of them lacks OS-DEV Skills? eh? Do you even insinuate Pype.Clicker or Brendan or Candy (or me) to lack os dev skills just because we use c&asm instead of pure asm?

There is no need to go that personal, to use a level this low.

I ain't astonished if the both of them 'd demand satisfaction from you.

For gods sake ... you ain't moderator here nor anyplace else so keep your teeth/keys tight.

just my 2 $

[Brynet-Inc]

@Solar and Brynet-Inc, I think the pair of you should be the best of friends, as the both of you have alot in common, like lurking on a OS dev forum, but not having the skill to make a OS.
A programmer is someone who code something (usefull) in a programming language, not some one who lurks on a coding forum, trying to tell others, they are using the wrong editor, or OS.
As for linux or other unix ****, if it was so good why do 99% of people not even want it ,even if its free ?.

IF I WAS A MODERATER HERE I WOULD BAN THE BOTH OF YOU

Last time I checked Dex, One doesn't have to be currently developing an OS to be on these forums, I also prefer studying or reading about peoples ideas and then voicing my opinions.. How exactly would you know we haven't programmed anything useful? I have written a few things.. And I'm guessing Solar has too.

I Didn't know I was exactly lurking here.. I'm just interested in OSDev and projects with Unix-like goals.

That's not a viable comment about Unix-like systems Dex, While their is quite a few Windows users out there they might not even know there are solutions besides Windows..

Microsoft has also made lot's of deals with hardware manufactures and distributors, It's a matter of money.. Just because it's well distributed does not make it superior Dex.

Last time I checked UNIX has been alive in some form of implementation since 1969.

How people can willingly use Windows while developing OS's is beyond me, They make it harder for people to obtain proper documentation to write drivers..

And you are not a moderator.. Banning us for being individuals is wrong.

Oh, Thanks for the support distantvoices..

[Alboin]

I have about 70%~ of the forum hating me for believing open source solutions are superior when compared with commercial ones.

I don't hate you. If I have a choice between two otherwise identical software titles, I'd chose the FOSS one, too, simply because it doesn't substract from what I can spend on my family. But I am strongly opposed to the notion that software is automatically "crap" just because it's commercial, or that "being FOSS" makes up for deficiencies in functionality.

@Solar and Brynet-Inc, I think the pair of you should be the best of friends, as the both of you have alot in common, like lurking on a OS dev forum, but not having the skill to make a OS.
A programmer is someone who code something (usefull) in a programming language, not some one who lurks on a coding forum, trying to tell others, they are using the wrong editor, or OS.
As for linux or other unix ****, if it was so good why do 99% of people not even want it ,even if its free ?.

IF I WAS A MODERATER HERE I WOULD BAN THE BOTH OF YOU

That's some harsh stuff...

[Candy]

@Solar and Brynet-Inc, I think the pair of you should be the best of friends, as the both of you have alot in common, like lurking on a OS dev forum, but not having the skill to make a OS.
A programmer is someone who code something (usefull) in a programming language, not some one who lurks on a coding forum, trying to tell others, they are using the wrong editor, or OS.
As for linux or other unix ****, if it was so good why do 99% of people not even want it ,even if its free ?.

A programmer is somebody who programs. I doubt most people here would call themselves programmers and if they really do, I doubt any one of them is up to the task of writing a proper operating system. Anybody can hack code, it takes a disciplined type of character to write proper and clean code that can be used by others and that is still worthful years later.

Why unices aren't being used as much? Both marketing and getting stuff shoved down your throat. Microsoft spends over a $1.000.000.000 every year keeping their "omnipresence" appearance up, making sure people think IE is the only browser and that no other media player can play media or is worth considering. Unix isn't paying money. Most people, including development folks, that aren't inclined to try to get the world somewhere will follow the slope that is set up by marketing making the apparent truth the real truth. Windows is used so much that 95% of the people using it really shouldn't look at anything else, because they're just plain stuck in the way of thinking Windows requests of you.

IF I WAS A MODERATER HERE I WOULD BAN THE BOTH OF YOU

Then perhaps it is good that it's not up to you.

I recall a notion calling us over-moderating because we were too limiting. You want to limit more now?