Fed up with electric cars for now

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nullplan
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Fed up with electric cars for now

Post by nullplan »

Hi all,

why do new technologies insist on integrating nonsense nobody asked for? Last Friday, I had to make a business trip, and the car rental place only gave me an electric car, and I thought I'd give it a go. Big mistake.

I knew beforehand I wouldn't make it to the destination and back without recharging, so I looked up how all of this stuff works. Apparently, you are supposed to download an app to your smartphone, then create an account in that app, and then, when you get to a charging point, use the app to activate the charge point. It also handles billing, because it requires a credit card.

When I'd learned all that, it was too late to refuse the car, so I could only grit and bear it. I don't have mobile internet on my smartphone normally, because I usually don't need the internet when I am out and about. And at home and at work, I have Wifi. Therefore, mobile internet would be redundant.

But alright. My phone provider has an option where I can pay a little bit more and get quite some mobile data for a month, so I did that. Next problem: I have no credit card. You don't really need them here in Germany. We have debit cards that directly wire the money out of the bank account. And a credit card is basically a subscription service to access your own bank account. But my boss was gracious enough to loan me his (private) card. Since it was for a business trip, I would get reimbursed at the end, so I can pay him back as well.

So that still means that in order to just use an electric car, you have to
  • Enter into a subscription service for use of the charge points,
  • Enter into a subscription service for mobile internet, and
  • Enter into a subscription service for access to your own bank account.
On the day of the trip, the next scam surprised me: The advertised 400km range turned out to be more like 250km. And since the trip would be about that far, I'd have to take a charging break on the way up as well as down (don't want to be stranded with no options, right?). Well alright, at least the time is paid on a business trip.

Then I got to my destination. There was a massive e-car charging station out front, which I'd seen on the charging app before, and so I wanted to charge the car while I was with the customer. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to work. The app always told me that charging had begun, but the charge point itself stubbornly stayed at "please authorize" followed quickly by "please unplug". It wouldn't charge. I tried a different plug, in case that one was broken, and got the same result.

So, no charging at the customer's. Thankfully, the meeting with the customer was very short (I'm starting to dislike the guy who send me on the trip), and so I headed back before lunch even. When I got back to the place I'd charged the car at in the morning, I had another unwelcome surprise: That truck stop only has charge points on the other side of the highway. And the next exit was 10km away. I had 30km of range left at that point. That's the kind of anxiety I don't need in my life.

After a lengthy lunch break, I headed out again, and two hours later I pulled up to another charge point very close to home, so I can charge the car up one last time and hand it back fully charged. You always hand gas cars back with a full tank, and I don't see why electric cars should be any different. Plus, with the experience I'd had earlier, I had reason to presume the fast-charge point at the highway would work, but had doubts about the slow-charge points in town.

It took another hour to fully charge. Which meant that a drive that should have taken 2 1/2 hours had taken me 5, of which maybe 1/2 hour was attributable to traffic. In the evening I looked at the bills, and saw that I'd paid around 85€ for power on that day. My private gas car could have made the trip there and back on one tank, which currently goes for 50-60€.

Why do they make this charging stuff so complicated? With a gas car, you pull up to any fuel station in the land, push the nozzle in the hole, push the magic button, and the juices start flowing. Why is this so different when the juice is electric? I can think of explanations, but none favorable to the companies involved. They might argue that the charge stations are unmanned. But we have unmanned fuel stations, and you typically pay with debit card there. You go to the terminal, pre-authorize the withdrawal of funds, and that unlocks the pumps. Works well and requires no credit card and no app and no mobile internet.

Where does this leave me? Well, I know that the charging stuff is currently going very far in the wrong direction, and I won't be buying an electric car for myself unless something changes drastically. And, since that particular customer has a huge train station right outside the factory, next time I'll just take the train. It cannot possibly be this aggravating.

Oh yeah, and I'll have to look into cancelling some of those subscriptions next week.
Carpe diem!
thewrongchristian
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Re: Fed up with electric cars for now

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nullplan wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 10:09 am Hi all,

why do new technologies insist on integrating nonsense nobody asked for? Last Friday, I had to make a business trip, and the car rental place only gave me an electric car, and I thought I'd give it a go. Big mistake.

<snip entirely reasonable rant>
So, basically, what you're fed up with is actually not the electric car per se, but the piss poor infrastructure around the charging.

And I must say, entirely reasonable rant. How the infrastructure is being done is entirely ridiculous, we should just be able to anonymously plug in and charge.

Other than that, how was the actual car?

When I got my first gen Prius in 2018, I loved it, and vowed never to buy another non-electric based transmission again, it was just so nice.

Alas, that car got written off in a minor accident, and the cost of replacement Prius was too much to buy with current used car prices.

Sigh. I can't wait for the cheap simple Chinese imports to let the western car manufacturers know what people actually want from an electric car. A simple, cheap, easy to drive and maintain commuter mobile, not some mega expensive, heavy, 7 seat SUV monster that only ever drives round urban streets.
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AndrewAPrice
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Re: Fed up with electric cars for now

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Everything tries to be high tech. I went to McDonald's for the first time in perhaps a decade. Everyone ordered from touch screen. It wanted me to sign in to a McDonalds account to pay. (I managed to pay as a "guest".) It felt very soulless and lonely compared to everywhere else where you order through a human.

Every town in New Jersey appears to use a different app for car parking. It's not fun to be standing on the curb with a restless toddler for 10 minutes while you download the parking app of the day, create an account, enter payment info, verify phone number, register car info, figure out the parking space's id, etc. Carrying around coins is annoying, but feeding a few coins into meter is more convenient than the digital app circus you have to go through.
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nullplan
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Re: Fed up with electric cars for now

Post by nullplan »

thewrongchristian wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 11:10 am So, basically, what you're fed up with is actually not the electric car per se, but the piss poor infrastructure around the charging.
Bingo. But considering the range of these vehicles, difficulties with charging will be a major part of the electric car experience.
thewrongchristian wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 11:10 am Other than that, how was the actual car?
It was a Mercedes EQA. The electric engine goes like a rocket when you floor it, and the recuperation means you only need to push the brake pedal to actually stop the car, otherwise you can drive on a single pedal. However, they did try too many new things, and it would probably take some getting used to if I owned it. And the gear selector confuses the hell out of me. It is a stalk on the steering column, and you push it up for reverse and down for drive, which is the exact opposite of what I'd do instinctively.

Beyond that, it was functional. I don't need a lot from a car. I need it to go when I press one pedal and stop when I press the other. Most of the drive was just highway, and there I am often too annoyed by the other drivers on the road to take note of the specifics of the car. But after switching back to my own car, I noticed that I started to want the engine braking to be stronger, so I guess the recuperation really rubbed off on me.
AndrewAPrice wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 11:36 am Everything tries to be high tech. I went to McDonald's for the first time in perhaps a decade. Everyone ordered from touch screen.
Oh yeah. Well, I actually like those, because I can browse the menu more easily, especially with the specials they keep changing. And in Germany, they don't compel you to create an account. Yet.
AndrewAPrice wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 11:36 am Carrying around coins is annoying, but feeding a few coins into meter is more convenient than the digital app circus you have to go through.
So America never discovered the wonders of the ticket printer? In Germany, parking meters are becoming more and more of a rarity. I can off-hand remember a couple of streets that used to have them and no longer do. Monetization of parking happens either with parking garages, where you get a ticket on entry and pay it off before being able to leave, or with centralized ticket printers, where you feed coins into a centralized box and it spits out a ticket telling you how long you can park. Newer models of this box also accept debit cards.
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iansjack
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Re: Fed up with electric cars for now

Post by iansjack »

Undoubtedly, we are all getting older and less tolerant of new things.

‘Twas ever thus.
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AndrewAPrice
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Re: Fed up with electric cars for now

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I'm not upset about things being new, but the dependency on mobile phones to participate in commerce.

For example, I've been to a bar where they had QR codes on the table and asked that you order and pay on your phone through the QR code. (And then in the US they still ask for a tip, even though I didn't interact with any waitstaff.)

I think it annoys me particularly because I have international family that visits that doesn't have data roaming.

At least New Jersey has a state law requiring businesses to accept cash.
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iansjack
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Re: Fed up with electric cars for now

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AndrewAPrice wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:21 pm I'm not upset about things being new, but the dependency on mobile phones to participate in commerce.
Perhaps you are familiar with the term “oxymoron”?
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Re: Fed up with electric cars for now

Post by AndrewAPrice »

iansjack wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:33 am
AndrewAPrice wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:21 pm I'm not upset about things being new, but the dependency on mobile phones to participate in commerce.
Perhaps you are familiar with the term “oxymoron”?
"Progress" is not an inevitable linear path towards a more impersonal, complicated, segregated world.

Technology works best when it solves a problem, rather than being the goal itself. Every town wanting you to install a different parking app (and create an account, verify your identity, register your car) is an example where the town's end goal was "we want to be modern by adopting parking via an app" rather than "making parking as streamlined as possible".

I'm thinking:
- Keep a ticket machine per block that supports printing paper tickets (via cash or card) for people who don't have a phone with mobile data.
- If you want to allow paying by phone, meet there users where they're at. In the US, just about everyone who sends money via their phone uses Venmo. You send the parking fee via Venmo with your parking spaces's ID in the comment, then it replies saying "Thank you. You're space will expire at 3:30pm." Sends another comment within Venmo 5 minutes before expiring to see if you'd like to send more money to top it up. In other countries, you could use WhatsApp or whatever is the most populate mobile payment system. Not downloading, creating an account, set up payment methods, etc. in a unique app per town.
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iansjack
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Re: Fed up with electric cars for now

Post by iansjack »

You can be sure that people complained about credit cards when they were introduced.
You can be sure that people complained about bank notes when they were introduced.
You can be sure that people complained about coins when they were introduced.

Why can't I just barter a few oxen instead of having to use these funny metal disks?
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Re: Fed up with electric cars for now

Post by eekee »

Ooof! I'm so glad I don't need a car for anything.
iansjack wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:05 pm Undoubtedly, we are all getting older and less tolerant of new things.
I was far less able to cope with complex interfaces when I was approaching adulthood in the early 90s. :P But this is because of the meningitis I had when I was 13. I've very slowly gotten better over the years, though never to the point of really being able to deal with all this. The number of app downloads and sign-ups @nullplan describes would critically impact my ability to focus for the rest of the day and perhaps into the next.
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