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For most people in "real life" (friends, family, etc); the most common reaction I get when I tell them I'm writing an operating system is "What is an operating system?".
I'd estimate that about 80% of people have no idea what happens between power on and login screen or desktop (and which part is firmware, which part is OS, and which parts are applications).
It's the same for hardware. For example, one day (after spending 10 years using computers as an office worker) my Father told me his laptop has 750 GiB of RAM (guess how big the hard drive is).
Cheers,
Brendan
For all things; perfection is, and will always remain, impossible to achieve in practice. However; by striving for perfection we create things that are as perfect as practically possible. Let the pursuit of perfection be our guide.
Brendan wrote:It's the same for hardware. For example, one day (after spending 10 years using computers as an office worker) my Father told me his laptop has 750 GiB of RAM (guess how big the hard drive is).
Actually I blame that on promotional material for computers. The number of computer adverts that I see that talk about "memory", without defining what kind, is frightening. They use the term interchangeably, and the only way to know what is being referred to is by looking at the size (i.e. if it says "750 GB of memory" it's probably talking about the hard drive). This has gotten considerably worse, too, with mobile devices and solid-state memory coming out, as adverts (and end users) don't talk about "disk space" anymore but almost always call solid-state/flash storage "memory"; a few adverts say "storage space". And with smartphones (at least low-end ones), it's difficult to get it from the context - "4 GB of memory" could reasonably mean either RAM or flash storage.
When you start writing an OS you do the minimum possible to get the x86 processor in a usable state, then you try to get as far away from it as possible.
I stopped talking about my "programming project" because it easily sounded more advanced than it really was/is. I did not want to take credit for it. I will start talking about it when there is something worth releasing.
I like talking about my OS to family, friends and even computer teachers, but it seems no one understands me at all. Some tell me I need to close-source it and sell it to make money. Others tell me to do some high-level development with Python because there are working stands that require high-level programming. And others just make fun of me.
iansjack wrote:Other people's hobbies tend to be boring.
Quite true. Well said. Except you probably meant they tend to seem be boring for others, while in reality they are interesting to those practising them.
i'd say kernel or low-level embedded dev work is more insightful and prestiguous than doing application level work. I view it more like a exquisite, cult and niche stuff than being seen by others as weirdo. There is a reason IMHO I stick to this instead of app level. There are too many web developers, app developers and one can easily become one just learning some high level languages by buying books from B&N and become "developers". I am not saying becoming hi-level developers are walk in the park but it is more accessible by many than embedded. Also not to ignore that I think some branches of application level development can become extremely complicated like machine learning, AI, big data and so on.
In another word, it is crowded. I virtually seen few weeks ago, a girl who was in another profession, did some practice web design and participated in hackathon (which I mostly dont know what it is) and landed a job in one startup.
I think embedded field is different as it is not obvious for most people and most people put off due to time and dedication effort needed to become one.
just my 02c.
key takeaway after spending yrs on sw industry: big issue small because everyone jumps on it and fixes it. small issue is big since everyone ignores and it causes catastrophy later. #devilisinthedetails
Sorry for waking up an old thread, but I think I understood what happens with my dad when I tell him I'm working on an operating system. My mum is much calmer, though.
___
Dad: Stop already playing games!
Me: I'm not playing games! I'm programming!
Dad: I see no effects of your programming! Do you do any work that's useful, like I did when I was working for the Ministry of Argiculture? Do you get paid for you work, like I was? No! Get up already!
Me: I'll get up in 5 minutes.
Dad: Will the next game fit in 5 minutes?
Though I have to concede that I usually don't get up after 5 minutes.
___
Dad: Why did you buy this mouse?
Me: Because I need to test if 5-button mouses work on my OS.
Dad: No! You bought it so you play with more amusement.
Yes, that was marketed as a gaming mouse, but does my dad know any English beyond the scope of Fortran and Cobol programming languages?
___
Me: Ideally I'd like another computer so I can test my OS on different hardware.
Dad: No, you want it so you can play also at night.
___
That's it. Needless to say my dad uses his computer only to play Mahjong and Solitaire...
glauxosdever wrote:Dad: Why did you buy this mouse?
Me: Because I need to test if 5-button mouses work on my OS.
Dad: No! You bought it so you play with more amusement.
Amousement it is.
That's sad. Do you think it'll change when you show him your first money made with programming? Or will he yet again say something ridiculous like "OMG, I raised a thief!".
glauxosdever wrote:Dad: Why did you buy this mouse?
Me: Because I need to test if 5-button mouses work on my OS.
Dad: No! You bought it so you play with more amusement.
Yes, that was marketed as a gaming mouse, but does my dad know any English beyond the scope of Fortran and Cobol programming languages?
Haha, how are you ever going to convince him that you didn't by the gaming mouse for gaming?
glauxosdever wrote:Needless to say my dad uses his computer only to play Mahjong and Solitaire...
Why don't you install your OS on his computer? Either he'll finally see and appreciate the fruits of your labour, or he won't even notice the difference. (And you'll get to test it on some different hardware in the process. )
When you start writing an OS you do the minimum possible to get the x86 processor in a usable state, then you try to get as far away from it as possible.
glauxosdever wrote:Though I have to concede that I usually don't get up after 5 minutes.
Dad: Of gaming?!
My previous account (embryo) was accidentally deleted, so I have no chance but to use something new. But may be it was a good lesson about software reliability
onlyonemac wrote:Why don't you install your OS on his computer? Either he'll finally see and appreciate the fruits of your labour, or he won't even notice the difference. (And you'll get to test it on some different hardware in the process. )
I tested it some time ago, but only the GRUB menu showed up. I think it has a firmware that doesn't support VBE.
alexfru wrote:Do you think it'll change when you show him your first money made with programming? Or will he yet again say something ridiculous like "OMG, I raised a thief!".
Actually, when he worked for the Ministry of Agriculture, most of his work involved developing programs that managed subsidies and taxes of farmers based on the area of their fields, the number and the kind of their animals, etc. These programs were written in the Fortran and Cobol languages.
/me wonders if glauxosdever's dad may be more interested in the operating system if it was written in fortran or colbol...
EDIT: maybe you could explain it to him by showing him the source code and saying "this is like the fortran and colbol that you used to write, but more advanced"? And then demonstrate the OS booting on your computer (to help him understand what an operating system is)?
When you start writing an OS you do the minimum possible to get the x86 processor in a usable state, then you try to get as far away from it as possible.
onlyonemac wrote:/me wonders if glauxosdever's dad may be more interested in the operating system if it was written in fortran or colbol...
He is only interested if it is Windows.
onlyonemac wrote:maybe you could explain it to him by showing him the source code and saying "this is like the fortran and colbol that you used to write, but more advanced"? And then demonstrate the OS booting on your computer (to help him understand what an operating system is)?
In his opinion, it's still playing games, since I don't get paid.
He also doesn't know the x86 boot process at all and he is not interested in learning it (he was programming before microcomputers came out). While discussing with him, I once complained that all computers are sold with Windows preinstalled. And he told me: "If Windows wasn't preinstalled, how would you install Linux?". When I told him that BIOS loads Windows, or Linux, or any other operating system, he almost started cursing BIOS.
I first started tinkering with this stuff ages ago in high school. My dad used to be a computer nerd, so he understood what I was doing even if he had long forgotten the technical knowledge that would let us have a conversation about it. But it's kind of a silly question -- you make it sound like some kind of momentous secret that's going to shock them or blow their minds when frankly, even if they did understand it, while it's interesting to yourself and us, it's really not that impressive.
Look at this board, for instance. God bless all of our work, but even the most impressive guys on this board like klange have systems that are, at best, a novelty. Keep working on it, but know that you're working on it for yourself because that's the person that it's going to impress. Because if and when you decide to tell anyone about it, they're either going to go 'huh?' or 'oh, neat' and promptly forget about it.
Kind of had to go through all of this semi-recently with my girlfriend. We started dating about a year ago, and at one point it finally occurred that she texted to see what I was up to and I had to say 'hacking away on P5'. To which she replied 'what's that' -- and thus began the cycle of trying to describe things in the most concise, non-boring way possible. And she's a smart lady, and she tries to take an interest in things, but it's really not her bag and it shows. Because this isn't 99.9% of people's bags.
So, ultimately, there's the takeaway: Curb your enthusiasm on this one. At least for how people are going to react. For god's sake, keep the flame alive for yourself, because this is something you should be doing for you for fun and to impress yourself.
But the truth is, non-technical people are going to end up not understanding what you're talking about and finding it a very boring idea. And most technical people are going to raise their eyebrows, say '...but why' and find it a boring idea because they don't care about solved problems.
So, tell them now or don't. They'll still love you either way. Even if it makes them realize that they're never getting grandchildren.
EDIT: Ahhh sh*t. Got here from checking out what was fresh and didn't even pay attention to the fact that I'm chaining onto an old thread. What a fool.
glauxosdever wrote:In his opinion, it's still playing games, since I don't get paid.
Funny that that's his definition of "playing games". Sorry if I'm wrong, but aren't you too young to work anyway? (Or at least, too young to have finished studying and gotten a proper job.)
glauxosdever wrote:And he told me: "If Windows wasn't preinstalled, how would you install Linux?". When I told him that BIOS loads Windows, or Linux, or any other operating system, he almost started cursing BIOS.
duh... *facepalm*
When you start writing an OS you do the minimum possible to get the x86 processor in a usable state, then you try to get as far away from it as possible.
(And you'll get to test it on some different hardware in the process. 
