A new commercial game for MS-DOS

[Antti]

Hello OSdevers!

What do you think the idea that someone creates a new commercial MS-DOS game? This may sound silly but please let me clarify this a little bit.

The concept is rather simple: a high-quality game, box, diskettes, hardcover manuals etc. The word "retro" is _not_ used anywhere and the whole thing should appear as a serious project. This would be a high risk investment but I think the first one doing this concept will succeed. This will not work many times.

The whole point of this concept is that the product should have a commercial appearance. All the web-pages and advertising materials should be finely polished. The open-source-hobby-project feel and appearance should be strictly avoided. The game itself should contain some theme and characters that can be developed further even if this legacy game concept is discarded later on. I haven't designed the game itself but it might resemble some side-scroller-adventure combination.

To be somehow realistic, Windows-, Mac-, Linux-ports of this game are also released and they are developed concurrently with the MS-DOS version. Cross-platform libraries are not used and all the ports are native. This should not be hard to do if these requirement are taken into account from the very beginning. There might be little improvements in graphics and sound but the general feel of the game should resemble the native MS-DOS game.

These modern ports are not advertised at all but the MS-DOS version is the main product. This is stupid but it does belong to the concept and it distinguishes the title from others. If done well, this would attract a lot of attention.

I have not yet consider the price of the product. The game itself could be like "abandonware" from the very beginning. The only way to officially get it is to buy the box but it would be perfectly legal to distribute the game itself. Hopefully, the real game box might have some collectible value in the future.


Best Regards,

Antti

PS. I am also developing an OS but maybe I'll introduce it some other time.

[iansjack]

I'm busy developing my CP/M word processor, but I'll get back to you when I've finished.

(PS The programming side of your project should be simple but you may have to work on the marketing.)

[Solar]

This is stupid but it does belong to the concept and it distinguishes the title from others.

Distinguishing yourself is easy. Doing it in a positive way is the trick. The only idea you have so far is a nice package for a MS-DOS only game, of which you only have a foggy concept. That's not enough for an elevator pitch.

[bluemoon]

The concept is rather simple: a high-quality game, box, diskettes, hardcover manuals etc. The word "retro" is _not_ used anywhere and the whole thing should appear as a serious project. This would be a high risk investment but I think the first one doing this concept will succeed. This will not work many times.

With what ground and research you forecast such a success chance (100%) ?

The whole point of this concept is that the product should have a commercial appearance. All the web-pages and advertising materials should be finely polished.

It is basic requirement for any product that sell for money.

The open-source-hobby-project feel and appearance should be strictly avoided. The game itself should contain some theme and characters that can be developed further even if this legacy game concept is discarded later on. I haven't designed the game itself but it might resemble some side-scroller-adventure combination.

This may be a problem, why someone want to play a clone of platform game? do you have a good team of artist and fancy graphic/effects?

To be somehow realistic, Windows-, Mac-, Linux-ports of this game are also released and they are developed concurrently with the MS-DOS version.

I actually care it less, with casual gameplay I would look into mobile and tablets as well, and I actually don't care Linux or Mac for commercial game, but supporting them is a plus if you have good development team and QA team that can handle them without significantly increase the development cost.

Cross-platform libraries are not used and all the ports are native.

I disagree. With multiple platform in mind a good cross-platform library save much development cost and trouble. For causal game I would consider in-house development or 3rd party solution like unity, or even flash. For rendering part OpenGL is nice, it works on almost every platform except DOS.

[Kevin]

This may be a problem, why someone want to play a clone of platform game? do you have a good team of artist and fancy graphic/effects?

Actually, if it should feel like a typical DOS game, it should use a 320x200 graphics mode. There's not much left to do for artists then.

The nice thing for me as the player (and the hard thing for you as the developer) is that without fancy graphics that distract from the game, you actually need to have a unique concept that is fun. A "clone of platform game" (or, for that matter, anything that people might describe as "clone") is probably not going to fulfill this requirement.

[Antti]

This is stupid but it does belong to the concept and it distinguishes the title from others.

Distinguishing yourself is easy. Doing it in a positive way is the trick. The only idea you have so far is a nice package for a MS-DOS only game, of which you only have a foggy concept. That's not enough for an elevator pitch.

You're right. I went to the marketing details too fast. The actual game concept should be designed first and that should be the main thing.

The concept is rather simple: a high-quality game, box, diskettes, hardcover manuals etc. The word "retro" is _not_ used anywhere and the whole thing should appear as a serious project. This would be a high risk investment but I think the first one doing this concept will succeed. This will not work many times.

With what ground and research you forecast such a success chance (100%) ?

I don't have any research done for this but I have a strong feeling about that. Actually, I am currently doing some research as I read your opinions.

The whole point of this concept is that the product should have a commercial appearance. All the web-pages and advertising materials should be finely polished.

It is basic requirement for any product that sell for money.

I meant this a little bit differently. All the materials should seriously advertise this as a game only for MS-DOS. In these days it is crazy and that is the catch. Of course, the high quality is self-evident for commercial success.

The open-source-hobby-project feel and appearance should be strictly avoided. The game itself should contain some theme and characters that can be developed further even if this legacy game concept is discarded later on. I haven't designed the game itself but it might resemble some side-scroller-adventure combination.

This may be a problem, why someone want to play a clone of platform game? do you have a good team of artist and fancy graphic/effects?

You're right here. It shouldn't be just a clone. A good team for graphics is needed if the project goes so far.

To be somehow realistic, Windows-, Mac-, Linux-ports of this game are also released and they are developed concurrently with the MS-DOS version.

I actually care it less, with casual gameplay I would look into mobile and tablets as well, and I actually don't care Linux or Mac for commercial game, but supporting them is a plus if you have good development team and QA team that can handle them without significantly increase the development cost.

A good point. Mobiles and tablets must be taken into account too.


I am just having some excuse to do some old-school developing with modern tools. That is the real reason of this silly project plan. Now I am finding some rationale for this and that is where the business side came along. I am not really a business man but I still believe in this idea.

[Antti]

This may be a problem, why someone want to play a clone of platform game? do you have a good team of artist and fancy graphic/effects?

Actually, if it should feel like a typical DOS game, it should use a 320x200 graphics mode. There's not much left to do for artists then.

The nice thing for me as the player (and the hard thing for you as the developer) is that without fancy graphics that distract from the game, you actually need to have a unique concept that is fun. A "clone of platform game" (or, for that matter, anything that people might describe as "clone") is probably not going to fulfill this requirement.

It could use VESA modes. If the game is good, I will play it even the concept being non-unique. However, it has failed if people describe it as a clone. It should be "stand-alone".

[iansjack]

I am not really a business man but I still believe in this idea.

I can certainly believe the first part of that sentence, but I have difficulty with the second part. Why you think anyone will pay for a game for an obsolete OS that very few people use? It's not as if there aren't already hundreds of DOS games available for free or very little cost. The only people who would possibly be interested in your project would be those running MS-DOS. How many people is that; and what percentage of them would pay cash for a new game?

Imagine I am a bank manager and you are trying to get a loan to fund this project. How would you convince me that it will make any money?

[DavidCooper]

I haven't designed the game itself but it might resemble some side-scroller-adventure combination.

I think you need to concentrate on doing that first before you start thinking about marketing gimmicks. You need somthing innovative with first-rate gameplay, because without that you're just going to be asking people to buy something very ordinary for the fun of owning something that runs on an extinct operating system - I don't think that's going to have a lot of appeal. If you do come up with a good game though, you could maybe give away a free MS-DOS version of it to help promote the real thing, though I doubt many people would ever bother to run it, so it's likely to be a complete waste of effort. If you're up to the task of creating a first-rate game, you should be able to compete without needing to resort to such a pointless gimmick.

[miker00lz]

I like DOS, I even still use it on my vintage systems and there are a ton of good DOS games but I've got to ask... why? Why would you want to try and market a DOS game in 2012? Making a good DOS game in 2012 is cool, but trying to market it to the public as a commercial product? You WILL fail. Sorry, it's the truth.

[Antti]

Now this project is starting to be even more interesting. I want to thank you all for the replies. First of all, I don't think the people actually will play it on real MS-DOS but they play the modern ports of it. The idea of retro-game is more authentic if it is really available for the old environment also.

The game itself must be designed to be very portable. The game data must be clearly separated from the game engine. Actually, it might be something like Doom's WAD and it would be even possible to make own open-source ports of it. The data would still be proprietary.

Making a commercial MS-DOS game in 2012 is so ridiculous that it must be a good idea. That is the definition of a good argument.

[bluemoon]

Cross-platform library for windows, mac, linux is fairly easy due to POSIX and OpenGL; crossing with DOS is non-trivial, DOS simply has nothing. I'm not saying it is impossible, it's actually doable and not difficult, but I'm certain it double the workload.

Anyway, good luck.

[Antti]

If business is put aside for a while, what do you think about the MS-DOS programming techniques? While doing my OS developing, I have regocnized the limits of 16-bit mode. The game could use Protected Mode but would it be against the MS-DOS intrinsic nature? However, most notable DOS games are using the PM.

I did mention about the possibility to use VESA modes for graphics. After reconsidering it, I think that it might not be a good idea. Probably the game engine should only use the 320x200 graphics because that is what the games basically used back then.

The craziest idea would be using the Long Mode on MS-DOS. Have anyone ever done this? Would it nice to see "DOS/64GW Long Mode Run-time Version 1.00" while starting a MS-DOS program?

Hopefully you recognize overkills when you see them.

[iansjack]

Hopefully you recognize overkills when you see them.

OK; good joke while it lasted.

You took all of us in, but enough trolling.

[bluemoon]

You can go for long mode extender for DOS, but chances are most real machine or emulator running DOS/DOSBOX fail to support long mode, you're left with those user that are convinced to buy your game AND install DOS on their physical machine AND have a narrow hardware requirement. and the user need to hack all the way for dealing with issue like file transfer(new machine has no cdrom but only usb), lack of built-in internet access(only greek know there is packet driver for DOS), etc.