I want to learn Visual C++ 6.0, where should i start?

[Mastercard]

C and C++ are so alike there is no point learning C first. Just try to get somethig out with the introductory edition of Visual C++

[Joey]

yah im just gonna learn vc++. as long as i can make some cool games with them, i like it.

[Schol-R-LEA]

C++ is a superset of C; most (but not all) C programs are also valid C++ programs (the difference comes from the fact the C++ has several additional keywords, which can cause problems with older C programs that use them as identifiers). In a sense, learning C is learning C++.

The big difference between them is in how you program in the two languages; C is a procedural languagem while C++ combines procedural programming and Object-oriented programming (if you don't know what these terms mean yet, don't worry, it wil all become clear in time). Whether it is better to learn from a C perspective or a C++ perspective will differ from person to person.

I do recommend learning a few languages other than C or C++, but if you are already working on C++, then that can wait. It is better, at least for most people and especially when you are starting out, to work on learning one language at a time. Later, as you get familiar with more different programming styles, learning new languages will become much easier, to the point where you may understand a new programming languages in only a few days, or even just a few hours if it is similar to one you already know.

[ark]

if you have visual C++ you can compile C programs. As previously mentioned, most C programs will compile with C++ (though that is a generalization...they may require some modification)...and you can also tell the Visual C++ compiler to operate in "C" mode by using a .c extension for files instead of .cpp.

I've never actually done that on purpose, so I don't know if it lets you be as sloppy as C allows you to be or if it still enforces some of C++'s rules.

[Joey]

hold on. im getting confused. i have only programmed with AGI. i only did the print commands and stuff with qbasic. does anyone suggest i learn visual basic 6 instead? it may be easier for my first REAL language. if so, could you suggest a good book that comes with VB6? thank you.

Note: i didnt do much work with vc++ 6 yet. all i did was cout and cin commands. if people think i should learn vb6 i dont mind at all. i most likely will, (if there is a good book with vb6) and after i learn vb6, i will learn vc++ 6.

also: am i able to distribute or sell any programs i make with vb6?

[Tom]

Well...To make programs for sell...you need to go to the goverment to get a Copyright AND you NEED to have C++ Pro or higher!

Also...Before you learn VC++...I strongly suggest to "Learn C++ TODAY!".

VC++ Can be TOO hard to learn! Your NOT just learning C++, but also Windows, and MFC, and Sometimes, the WinAPI!

Learn C++ Today for DOS is much easier than learning all that at one time! With that book...you learn C++ Only, and THEN is it easier to learn the MFC and API.

I looked at that language you know(or mabe it was SCI or that other one?). Very like some pascal-basic mix...right?

Well...It will be almost too hard to learn VC++ at the C++ start. Start out with just C++, then go to making your games with VC++.

It may be awhile, but with all that time, you'll be able to make games that make your current ones seem silly ( I think ).

[Schol-R-LEA]

hold on. im getting confused. i have only programmed with AGI. i only did the print commands and stuff with qbasic. does anyone suggest i learn visual basic 6 instead? it may be easier for my first REAL language. if so, could you suggest a good book that comes with VB6? thank you.

As I said before, I would recommend Scheme as a good first language, especially if you study from the online book How to Design Programs and use the Dr Scheme interpreter. It is admittedly a very different language from C and C++, but I see that as an advantage, personally. And the price is right...

Alternatively, you can pick up a copy of Assembly Language Step by Step and dive into the deep end. It sounds weird to say that, but it is this book is simply so good that it really would work, IMO.

Beyond these two - which I recommend primarily because of the excellent texts in question - the best language to try and learn from today is probably Python. It is an interpreted language, which has some important advantages when learning from scratch (no compiling, faster code turnaround, the ability to run small pieces of code rather than having to write whole programs) , and it is very easy to learn, yet it is close enough to the C family of languages that going from Python to C++ is a relatively easy step. There are several excellent tutorials on Python around the web, and O'Reilly and Assoc has a book entitled Learning Python that is well regarded and relatively cheap ($34.95 USD).

While a lot of people learn C++ from the start, it really is quite overwhelming. I would recommend having at least two other programming languages before tackling C++ (though C can be one of these).

Since I personally dislike VB for quite a number of reasons (sadly, I don't have time right now to go into them), I would not recommend learning it at all; others will surely disagree with me, but that's what makes for horse races. For practical reasons, you'll probably have to pick it up some day, but I think that learning it as your first language would be a grave error.

also: am i able to distribute or sell any programs i make with vb6?

That depends on the edition of VB you have, I think. I know that the Educational Edition has restrictions on on that; I think you need to have the professional or enterprise editions to compile production code. I'd check Microsoft's web site, and read through the EULA that came with your copy very carefully.

[Joey]

ok so i may learn c++ first then. but can i use vc++ 6 to make programs with c++? what i mean is i can use the introductory edition of vc++ 6 and still make stuff for c++ with that right? and if i got the pro edition, i couldnt just put a thing on my web site saying send 10 dollars here or use paypal? would that be illegal?

[ark]

yes, you can use Visual C++ to make C++ programs...that's what it's for. I'm not sure what all is involved in selling something on the Internet, because I've never done it. However, my understanding of copyrights is that you do not need to obtain one...the things you make are automatically copyrighted unless it is something that cannot be copyrighted at all. You do have to obtain a trademark (as far as I know), and you have to defend it in court or lose it. Copyrights don't work like that, however.

You would, of course, want to make sure you could prove you were the author of the copyrighted material...keeping the source code secret would pretty much do the trick.

[Joey]

oh cool. well is c++ complicated? how long would it take to learn? i know im not gonna learn it on my first sitting, but i dont want it to take like 8 months. i would like to learn it soon. i know i cant rush it, i just wanna make real good games. i can make some top of the line games with c++ right? like first person shooters and stuff. maybe race car games. i am not limited with c++ or visual c++ i think. that is why i want to learn it. but is that true?

[Tom]

I learned C++ in 5 months.

Then after those 5 months, then you can take the time ( long ) to learn Windows and MFC.

Don't give up on C++ just because it takes long! You already know how to make games, so learn C++ in the background. Then, soon you will be able to make super-de-duper graphics ( i.e. 800x600x32mb ).

You'll probly have your first C++ game 2 yrs from now. It'll be very very very very ( etc ... ) worth it. I know that since you can make the ultimate program in C++, a OS.

But, you'll probly learn C++ faster than what I just said ( mabe ALOT! ) because i've noticed some things that are very the same in AGI and C++ ( the #define directive...etc... ).

Hope that helps,

[Joey]

yes it does. but 2 years. man. but you said i would learn it faster maybe. i hope i do. i need to commit myself to this anyway. i think i will learn c++. christmas is coming soon, i think i will ask for this book, or buy it myself as soon as i can. thanks tom.

[Tom]

I think you'll learn C++ like 0 to 60

[ark]

It probably won't take you long to learn C++, but learning to program games is probably not going to happen in 8 months, and I'd put money on you not being able to program a top-of-the-line first person shooter in 8 months time. Learning these things does take a while and at times it can be frustrating, but once you learn, it's something that's valuable to know.

[Schol-R-LEA]

oh cool. well is c++ complicated?

[me=Schol-R-LEA]mutters something about being ignored.[/me]

Yes, C++ is among the most complicated languages ever designed. As a first time programming language, it is a very poor idea, though it is a remarkably popular one for all of that.

how long would it take to learn? i know im not gonna learn it on my first sitting, but i dont want it to take like 8 months. i would like to learn it soon. i know i cant rush it, i just wanna make real good games. i can make some top of the line games with c++ right? like first person shooters and stuff. maybe race car games. i am not limited with c++ or visual c++ i think. that is why i want to learn it. but is that true?

How long it will take to learn C++ depends on yourself, but unless you are very fast can count on at least 4 to 6 months at least to learn the basics of the language. For a first time programmer, more towards the latter than the former.

To learn enough of it to do anything productive in it will take at least another 3 to 6 months. :/ It should be noted that most Universities offer C++ over two semesters, and even them rarely dig very deep, but I am assuming that you can learn relatively quickly on your own.

If you take the time to learn another language first, you will probably save more time in learning C++ than you took in learning the other language. For example, it would generally take less than a month to learn Python, but it would easily cut your time in understanding C++ down by two or more months. Assembly language would take perhaps three months using ALSbS, but reduce the time for understanding C++ by two. Scheme takes about a day to understand well enough to program in.

Getting a reasonable grasp of Windows programming will probably take another 3 months, or more.

At this point, you've probably got a year of programming under your belt. Good. You will probably spend at least another year at game programming before you can really expect to see results, and several more at it to get really good. HTH.