RTFM & STFW !

[Zacariaz]

This will be my last post in this topic as this it is going nowhere fast, but let me just say this.
Anyone of course have something to give, even I have been help full once or twice around osdev. Lag of knowledge and experience does not mean lack of will to "give", but if the person is not able to give much, how can people evaluate this?
Yes a person who think he knows a person from the first post is very arrogant.
Innocent till proven guilty.

[pcmattman]

Hi,

2) Following the rules isn't just enough. If anybody has ever watched a movie called The Castle, they will know what I mean by 'the vibe'. If not, it's just you have to be a part of the community, give and take, not just take. You have to show that in the future, you will help other people. At least, that's my opinion.

I love The Castle.

EVERY SINGLE QUESTION I have ever had has been answered by either google or a forum search.

I can't quite say that, because some of my problems have been exceptionally obscure and required another set of eyes to look at my code. Even so, I made sure I checked up on my facts before posting and ensured that I'd Googled and read the manual (in some cases it's not only been the Intel manuals I've needed to read) before posting my question.

I think STFW/RTFM are appropriate when someone comes onto a forum expecting to be "spoon-fed" all the information they want, and can't be bothered taking some time to Google or read up in the manuals. There really is no excuse to not reading the manuals, IMO, as they're free in PDF or hard copy form!

On the other hand, I don't think we've had anyone as bad as this guy: clicky.

My 2 cents.

[Zenith]

RTFM & STFW FTW!

Honestly, free speech and all that crap permit me, or anyone on these forums to use these acronyms. People can interpret them however they like.

At least, we should have some introductory page we force all new members to read, and we should also explain what the acronyms are supposed to mean. (Not the exact wording, just what they tell the poster like to read the manual, etc.).

On the other hand, I don't think we've had anyone as bad as this guy

*cough* zalesch-what-his-face *cough* - I think he's left the forums now...

We've had a LOT of people worse than that guy - at least he understood what he was saying (an amazing thing) and the posts actually became informative and on-topic , unlike some I could mention...

[pcmattman]

Hi,

*cough* zalesch-what-his-face *cough* - I think he's left the forums now...

Whoops! How could I possibly ever forget him

Maybe I was just wishfully thinking ...

[eax]

I agree with you sandeep, theres alot of hostility on the webs these days, I also feel its just as easy to be nice and say look read artcles x,y and z and if that doesnt help come back and ask again. I see on many forums people excessivly using RTFM just to troll/provoke a reaction to me RTFM is insulting and you would as well be saying go read the fuckin manual you stupid fuckin twat, Im better than you. I feel superiority putting you down

Ok promise no more bad language from me but my point is its nice to be nice, you also get many saying ow but the same questions get asked over and over, personally I think within reason! big deal!(The sites getting hits and if the site was going down the pan and eventually know one was using it because of down right bad manners I'm sure site admins would be happy of the hits) If it becomes to excess an admin can deal with it and delete merge posts, + if you are polite to the person and explain what pre-reqs they must read, you have solved the problem in 99 of 100 cases, the person thinks highly of the site and they come back, the site gets bigger and better.

I wish people wouldn't be so dam critical online , to me community is all about good community spirit but unfortunately some sites are just full of hate and in some places members with more posts think that gives them a right to be-little people with less posts who are not in the community "cleek" (This is my experience from other places, I like to think that everyones members and we all have a duty to help each other when we can.See the difference in attitude? To me this is better for all but it doesnt work like that unfortunately)

I think STFW/RTFM are appropriate when someone comes onto a forum expecting to be "spoon-fed" all the information they want, and can't be bothered taking some time to Google or read up in the manual

To be fair though I can see the point here ^^ , my point is theres alot of alternate ways of helping someone and that being insulting gets used overly so much of the time however I totally respect what you are saying about people wanting spoonfed, there are however situations where certain things are just badly explained in manuals or details ommited/obscure in which case RTFM is unwarranted but will sometimes still be used regardless of the fact the person has read the manual + any recommended accompanying docs

Just to finally add, Zacariaz one of your posts on the second page regarding the wow analogy amongst other things I agree with your sentiments.

[JamesM]

to me RTFM is insulting and you would as well be saying go read the fuckin manual you stupid fuckin twat, Im better than you. I feel superiority putting you down

The person saying it undoubtably has the manual right open in front of them. The guide to asking smart questions details exactly what the prerequisites are before posting - namely good use of google-fu and looking at the manual. If someone can't be bothered to look at the manual and in fact finds the fact that he should have read the manual insulting, why should I spend time out of my day explaining to them a concept that is covered better and more in-depth by the manual writers? or the myriad tutorials out there?

If someone doesn't understand, after reading some of this material then that is a completely different matter. It's the lack of common courtesy in looking for the answers in the first place that gets my goat.

[eax]

It's the lack of common courtesy in looking for the answers in the first place that gets my goat.

Yeah in specifically this situation ^^ it is understandable people would find it annoying and that is fair enough , it unfortunately is also used as a means of trolling and provoking a reaction as well in many places which is why I think some have an aversion to overuse of it.

I guess it has a place in situations where a person has written guides or whatever and is getting harrased on a forum for answers which were clearly and concisely in their guide(However sometimes guides may be missing explinations of aspects , however I realise its dam unrealistic to except any OS development guide to be all encompassing but I guess Im just trying to make the point that its not always clear cut that a person hasnt done their best reading wise) but the person hasn't taken advice to read it. Its sometimes not as clear cut as that , I sometimes need to get multiple explinations from more than one guide/article before I can get to grips with something, so I may ask a question in differant ways just to see if I am going in the right direction with a concept.

Either way I can see your point as well , I just figured I would chime in since above all I think a friendly atmosphere is best if at all possible. (Life isnt perfect though eh , a shame!)