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Hi everyone ,
I cannot understand the reason why being hostile to anyone is good . Here surrounding us is eternity itself, trying to reduce it into managable nonsense is petty and outright dangerous . Ignorance in my humble opinion is not bad , but lack of willingness to take effort from one's part is ! .
May I suggest a refinement , PCM - Please check the Manuals ; PSW - Please search the web , or even better CM - Check Manuals , SW - Search the Web .
I find RTFM & STFW rather crude and impolite. This way you even save a few keystrokes at same time being more polite .
The point of the impolite acronyms is that they signify something that you should have done already as a matter of course. If it were real life it would be accompanied by a kick up the arse or a clip around the ear, as a way of telling you off for being naughty!
I find myself mostly in agreement with Sandeep. The manuals contain 90% extraneous info, and it's very difficult to tell (for the first 9 times when you read them) which info actually applies to an OS programmer. Info on the web is often lacking vital details. I would like to see this website be a repository for the sifted, condensed, and corrected info from every source.
However, it would be much nicer if some of the children around here would read, search, and think quite a bit more before repeating FAQs, or requesting basic info. So, I'd rather see RM = Read Manual, SW = Search Wiki, SF = Search Forums. While bearing in mind that the info on the web and in the manuals does inspire questions ... even when you read and search as you are supposed to do.
bewing wrote:I find myself mostly in agreement with Sandeep. The manuals contain 90% extraneous info, and it's very difficult to tell (for the first 9 times when you read them) which info actually applies to an OS programmer. Info on the web is often lacking vital details. I would like to see this website be a repository for the sifted, condensed, and corrected info from every source.
I would have to disagree with that, usually that 10% refers to the information that's learned in the 90%. RTFM and STFM are for people who haven't even read the 10%.
Also often people don't want to be bothered with questions like how do I start a OS or why does command X work.
To the OP, these acconyms can also have an alternative meaning that's less insulting. RTFM = Read The Fine Manual, STFM = Search The Fine Web
These days them acconyms should be RTFMP = read the freaking man page, JFGI = Just freaking google it.
Microsoft: "let everyone run after us. We'll just INNOV~1"
hi Be,
with all due respect , I do not agree with you man! . If someone calls you a S O B , you do not have to worry because he meant , You are Sick Of Boogies ! . Please note that I do not mean to insult you , but show that your idea dosent work ......
JamesM wrote:The point of the impolite acronyms is that they signify something that you should have done already as a matter of course. If it were real life it would be accompanied by a kick up the arse or a clip around the ear, as a way of telling you off for being naughty!
You have a point there . But I think in a public forum or place , it is far better to keep that in the back of the head than explicitly tell it .If you know the original poster personally then by all means go for it . Otherwise it is better to hint him politely that he is asking a stupid question .
SandeepMathew wrote:hi Be,
with all due respect , I do not agree with you man! . If someone calls you a S O B , you do not have to worry because he meant , You are Sick Of Boogies ! . Please note that I do not mean to insult you , but show that your idea dosent work ......
That shows my idea works perfectly. acconyms are ambiguous my their nature. SOB can also stand for So Obscenely Beautiful (and if someone call me a SOB, I say thanks). Acronyms are only disrespectful if you know the right meaning.
Microsoft: "let everyone run after us. We'll just INNOV~1"
I am in agreeance with JamesM on this one. STFW and RTFM are meant to not only guide the person to the appropriate text, but to also kick them into gear and realise that before they ask for any more hand-outs that they should at least get a base knowledge of what they are doing.
There are polite expansions for RTFM and STFW - Read the fine manual, search the fine web, rather than using that other F-word, but that's just an implementation detail for the people who claim they were insulted.
That aside, STFW (and RTFM) is when used with moderation very acceptable. In fact, when people are told to STFWed, they have in most cases violated the forum rules already, which explicitly tell people to STFW++ (Search The Forum, Wiki and more ).
"Certainly avoid yourself. He is a newbie and might not realize it. You'll hate his code deeply a few years down the road." - Sortie
[ My OS ] [ VDisk/SFS ]
The fact is - from a beginner in OS dev point of view - that the amount of informations for one that is just starting the journey is tremendous! Just by searching the Web, this forum and reading the wiki one may create a working kernel without a problem. I am doing this for two months now, and i did not have any question to be left unanswered this way yet.
STFW and RTFMs are needed, IMO. It would be a shame to waste all this brain power with simple things like ... basic assembly, how a jmp/call works (just readed this one), how to set up a GDT, ... All this information is out there, waiting for you!
u seem to have misunderstood me , I only said RTFM and STFW should be done in a more polite manner that's all. Therefore i proposed a slightly more parlimentry way of doing the same thing , that's all
The point of the impolite acronyms is that they signify something that you should have done already as a matter of course. If it were real life it would be accompanied by a kick up the arse or a clip around the ear, as a way of telling you off for being naughty!
When I say (write) this, I also feel a ceratin frustration because of this manner of using the "easy way" (it's not really the easy way... durring search you may find aditional interesting informations that will smoot your way afterwards, you may reach the actual data sheet, you may find information that bored guru forget to tell) without considering others at all...
(just readed this one), how to set up a GDT, ... All this information is out there, waiting for you! 
. But i think that STFW and RTFM are simply impolite and there exists a better way of doing it