Ubuntu linux vs. Window Vista - they both suck!

zaleschiemilgabriel · Post by **zaleschiemilgabriel** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:11 pm

Well, I didn't know I had to look very hard. Considering it is the "coder's heaven" I thought it would just have something like that by default.
I once wrote a program for the fasm compiler in emacs, but I'm never doing that again. That was painful... Emacs, the way I understood it, is supposed to be the best. I'm sure that there are a lot of development tools (mostly just text editors with syntax highlighting) in Ubuntu, but none of them looks like it was made to be used for long term. Maybe that's because real coders use consoles.

Alboin · Post by **Alboin** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:24 pm

zaleschiemilgabriel wrote:Emacs, the way I understood it, is supposed to be the best

There's been a smidgen of debate about that...

jzgriffin · Post by **jzgriffin** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:26 pm

*NIX has loads of text editors. I personally prefer Vim. If you didn't like Emacs and want a GUI-based configuration, give gedit a go. It has plugins, syntax highlighting, etc etc. And there's Scribes, SciTE, Leafpad, Mousepad (based on Leafpad), nedit, nano, the list goes on and on.

Linux is great for OSDev especially - the last time I checked, you couldn't mount disk images as easily and natively in Windows as in Linux. Windows dd? Where's the conv option?

Ok, dd for windows could be improved upon quite easily, but mounting will never be as good.

xyzzy · Post by **xyzzy** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:11 pm

zaleschiemilgabriel wrote:Uhm... No flaming, but Ubuntu's development platform is not that good. Every time I tried to code something in Ubuntu I found myself lacking a good IDE. And even FASM's simple editor beats the bloated console-based editors in linux. And the editors that do have an interface don't even have configuration options for something as simple as changing the white background to black. Not to say that Visual Studio is any better.

I think that's utter crap. Just about every GUI editor I've ever tried has had an option to change the colours. Also, Linux is so much easier to develop on - my OS took a hell of a lot of effort to build on Windows, yet Linux I just install a couple of packages and tada, I can build it.

jzgriffin · Post by **jzgriffin** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:35 pm

To build an OS on Windows, you spend about a day getting, installing, recompiling, and reconfiguring tools and your environment in general. This can all be done via an apt-get command on Debian-based distributions, and then you can use a well-coded makefile to do pretty much all of your OS building/cleaning/releasing/backing up operations.

JackScott · Post by **JackScott** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:17 pm

I've used them all. Debian, Ubuntu, Vista, XP, W3.11, etc. They all have good points and bad points. And those depend on what you want to do.

That said, I don't even bother with gaming on Debian.
And I wouldn't trust Vista with my web server.

michael1234 · Post by **michael1234** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:39 pm

Whats wrong with Vista?

Now that i've got it I couldnt live without it. I've never had it crash once in the months i've had it. Plus swhen a 3rd party program crashes it doesn't take the whole system down/wait 20min like XP can do...

And as for Visual Studio I find it much easier than linux (I've tried a couple).

The one thing I could say I don't like is when Vista comes along and gives me an estimate of twenty minutes to extract a ZIP folder and I come back half an hour later to find it not half way...

piranha · Post by **piranha** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:22 pm

I've never had it crash once in the months i've had it

I was at Costco or some store and tried the display model (the best one) and it crashed after using it for 3 min.

-JL

Combuster · Post by **Combuster** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:43 am

Jeremiah Griffin wrote:To build an OS on Windows, you spend about a day getting, installing, recompiling, and reconfiguring tools and your environment in general. This can all be done via an apt-get command on Debian-based distributions, and then you can use a well-coded makefile to do pretty much all of your OS building/cleaning/releasing/backing up operations.

1-2 hours, of which only 30 minutes actually needs your attention.
In my case:
- start firefox
- open tabs for cygwin, yasm, mtools, gcc, binutils, bochs, <ide of choice>
- locate and download the stuff
- install cygwin
- start 3 cygwin shells
- unpack gcc and binutils sources
- configure && make && make install binutils
- configure bochs
- unpack yasm
- configure make make install mtools
- build and install bochs
- tea break
- configure, make, make install gcc
- install <ide of choice> (should be downloaded by now)
- watch the next episode of Star Trek

JamesM · Post by **JamesM** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:54 am

zaleschiemilgabriel wrote:Well, I didn't know I had to look very hard. Considering it is the "coder's heaven" I thought it would just have something like that by default.
I once wrote a program for the fasm compiler in emacs, but I'm never doing that again. That was painful... Emacs, the way I understood it, is supposed to be the best. I'm sure that there are a lot of development tools (mostly just text editors with syntax highlighting) in Ubuntu, but none of them looks like it was made to be used for long term. Maybe that's because real coders use consoles.

Quite aside from this being flamebait-in-a-can, I thought I'd reply.

I do use emacs. I like the keybindings and it is *extremely* powerful. That said it's a bit old, so I tend to use it only when I need to do a quick change, and run it in my console window instead (with "emacs -nw myfile").

The emacs vs vim war has been raging forever, so I suggest you don't bring it up again. The long and short of it is that they're basically equivalent (actually emacs has more stuff because its designed as an ide as opposed to "just" a text editor as vim is designed) but emacs uses key combos in the form CTRL-x or ALT-x (where x is a key), and vim uses instead two modes - insert and command mode, where each key behaves differently.

As far as IDEs and decent text editors are concerned, you can't go far wrong with KDevelop. Kate is an absolutely awesome text editor, and KDevelop uses the same text component - katepart. Give it a try, it's seriously good. The autocompletion is a little unwieldy compared to visual studio, though.

Then you've got eclipse. I don't use it because its java based and as such uses all my PC's resources and takes half an hour to load, but that's just the program itself and it does the same on windows, I've found.

zaleschiemilgabriel · Post by **zaleschiemilgabriel** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:45 am

Whatever... Some like linux, others like windoze. I hate them both...

JamesM · Post by **JamesM** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:03 am

zaleschiemilgabriel wrote:Whatever... Some like linux, others like windoze. I hate them both...

My reply was meant to be informative only, not a "i am right and you are wrong".

binutils · Post by **binutils** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:19 pm

zaleschiemilgabriel wrote:Whatever... Some like linux, others like windoze. I hate them both...

i love them both, but there is something lack, the future.

zaleschiemilgabriel · Post by **zaleschiemilgabriel** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:51 am

Thanks for all the replies. I installed Vista last week but after I found that bug in VPC I decided to go with Ubuntu 64 bit version due to it's mounting capability. I never used that as much as I could have because I intend to design my own file system, but maybe there already is one that's supported by the mount in linux that I can use in my OS for now. Also, I decided that the best thing to do is to use the FASMW editor with WINE. I completely forgot about WINE for some reason.

So far, Vista hasn't lasted on my PC longer than 4 days.

If anyone knows a file system that's easy to implement and can be mounted in linux, please let me know. A specification or tutorial would also be useful.

EDIT: Does WINE work in Ubuntu 64bit?

Cheers,
Gabriel

B.E · Post by **B.E** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:57 am

zaleschiemilgabriel wrote:I never used that as much as I could have because I intend to design my own file system, but maybe there already is one that's supported by the mount in linux that I can use in my OS for now.

If you want to design your own file system, I would suggest looking into FUSE, it's a 'program' in linux that lets you mount userspace file systems(and has a very simple interface).