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[glow=red,2,300]Linux has become Microsoft's #1 competitor. According to market researcher International Data Corp., Linux garnered a 27 percent share of operating system software for computer servers sold last year. That's up from 24 percent in 1999 and 17 percent in 1998 ? a surprisingly high growth rate that positions Linux as the prime contender to knock Microsoft Windows from the top spot. [/glow]
There is always a war (undeclared )going on b/w Microsoft and almost everyone else. For a long period of time Microsoft has been ruling the software market without any doubt but after the arrival of Linux its changing. If you look at it we see a group of VERY talented people at Microsoft working there @$$ off for there product and on the other side we have a huge number of programmers, some talented some very talented, all around the world combining the pieces of Linux. This definately puts Microsoft in a real tight position.
I dont blame Microsoft for their monoplistic thinking, thier marketing techniques are excellent and no one else was good enough to adopt them but linux is also growing extremely fast.
I know this is not something to put in a OS DEV board but i just want to ask u guys wat do u think about all this and wat do u think the future of OS will be!!!

They might be in a tight spot, but linuxwill never take over the top unless it gets a serious CO with serious means of user support. When linux becomes easier to use and more simplistic is when MS will put its head between it knees and kiss its... you know the rest.

As far as I am concerned, I see a Hobby OS taking the top more so than Linux becasue most of us are focused on one project, thusly more organized. Where as linux is scattered to badly. IMHO that is.

Regards,
mr. xsism

... bender?

1. Dear dear Guest: I am adult enough to read long sentences without geting confused, but I canna read long sentences when they are in this red wishy washy mumbojumbo that smacks into the eye like a fist. Just avoid it, so everybody can read your sentences with ease.

2. Microsoft is far longer in the game than Linux. So no wonder that it is more evolved in some fields.

3. Linux for server, Windows for User, that's a good deal. Althou' I am using my Linux desktop more and more these days. Just got used to it because it launches quick like hell.

Personally, I loathe both Windows and Unix.

I don't like Microsoft - not because of their crushing the opposition, but mostly because the quality of their product and the DRM stuff they can only get away with because they rule the market.

I don't like Linux, or any other Unix derivative, because it's Unix. (The list would be too long to post...)

That's why I am working on an OS of my own.

Linux might - and probably will - win the server, unless Microsoft can leverage the push towards DRM to kill the market.

But even if Linux ever matures enough in the UI / usability department to win big in the desktop, I still don't think that's a win for Joe Average in its own right.

The thing Linux could have brought to the table - evening the ground, disallowing Microsoft to leverage their market share to pull off stunts like TCPA / Palladium - won't happen because the FSF doesn't actually want to even the ground. I can prove this claim, but that will have to wait until I have the paper ready. And, seeing how RedHat, Mono project and even Linus fall into ranks with the DRM stuff, I seriously doubt they will benefit the really alternative market in that respect, either.

your absloutely right Solar I don't like them both either. Windows because of it's commercialization and Linux because its got the lousiest interface i've seen (although its very powerful in processing).
Linux can't search a whole hard disk (20GB) without freezing up on screen in Xwindows whereas Win9x does so quite well.
That s the same reason i'm trying to develop an OS of my own

Just_A_Guest wrote:This definately puts Microsoft in a real tight position.

Possibly, but only in the server arena. Microsoft has little to worry about on the desktop (for now, at least). And don't forget that Microsoft is a cash giant; sometimes money can get results more effectively than a dispersed volunteer effort.

mr. xsism wrote:As far as I am concerned, I see a Hobby OS taking the top more so than Linux becasue most of us are focused on one project, thusly more organized. Where as linux is scattered to badly. IMHO that is.

I couldn't agree more.

beyond infinity wrote:Just got used to it because it launches quick like hell.

I envy you then Linux takes considerably longer to boot than Windows for me.

Solar wrote:Personally, I loathe both Windows and Unix.

Ditto.

Solar wrote:I don't like Linux, or any other Unix derivative, because it's Unix. (The list would be too long to post...)

Can you list at least few examples why?

Solar wrote:But even if Linux ever matures enough in the UI / usability department to win big in the desktop, I still don't think that's a win for Joe Average in its own right.

I beg to differ. Assuming Linux is somehow able to put forth usability that is superior to its Windows counterpart, users would be getting better software by migrating, no?

Solar wrote:...Linus fall into ranks with the DRM stuff, I seriously doubt they will benefit the really alternative market in that respect, either.

I wouldn't say Linus "falls into the ranks with the DRM stuff," more accurately, he isn't putting any sort of discriminating "ban" on DRM. Linus wants to ensure that whoever uses and/or distributes Linux has the freedom to incorporate DRM if they wish, or leave it out if undesirable.

nullify wrote:

Solar wrote:I don't like Linux, or any other Unix derivative, because it's Unix. (The list would be too long to post...)

Can you list at least few examples why?

Only if people promise not to turn this thread into a flamefest...

Please note that the following list does not give reasoning, and refers to all Unix derivatives, i.e. Linux, *BSD, HP-UX, Solaris, etc. etc. pp.

* Unix lacks a generic interface for configuring the system and its applications.

* The command line interface of Unix is probably the most powerful I've ever seen, but lacks severely in the mnemonics / intuitivity department.

* The multitude of different widget toolkits and look&feel hurt the GUI intuitivity severely.

* (The following especially true for the "free" Unixes) "Release early, release often" makes for immature, badly documented products. The attitude of "it's beta, cope" or "go fix it yourself" doesn't sit easy with Joe Average.

* Even with RPM, apt-get etc, Unix lacks a software distribution / installation / management tool I would consider "production grade". (Same goes for Windows.)

* Tools are often forked development, or configured inconsistently. I've seen three subtly different versions of "tar" on three different Unixes.

* Unix lacks a consistent way of providing version numbers. Two, three, or four digit, with "0.99" means "production grade quality since 1980" for one tool, "barely useable" for another.

That's just a few of my gripes.

Any flames please by private message or e-mail. Trust me, I will read them all, but I don't feel like being responsible for another public flamefest.

Assuming Linux is somehow able to put forth usability that is superior to its Windows counterpart, users would be getting better software by migrating, no?

There are several things in "being a kind of Unix" that just cannot be fixed short of a rewrite as a non-Unix OS. I don't consider a Unix-like OS to be a win over Windows.

Linus wants to ensure that whoever uses and/or distributes Linux has the freedom to incorporate DRM if they wish, or leave it out if undesirable.

Linus, IMNSHO, quite frankly, and excuse me for flaming such a high ranking person, obviously lacks the understanding to grasp what this decision will lead to.

But that's yet another flamebait... perhaps I should just drop out of this discussion.

i would be happy if someone could shortly explain what 'DRM' stands for (if it's not just DReaM -- that's all i can think of atm.)

pype's been faster than me ... I wanted to pose the same question.

but beside that: we are mostly grown ups. I think, we can, besides the occasional sarcasm (];->), communicate without the need to use rude words or to flame around.

Reasonable criticism is something beyond flaming.

stay safe

ps.: @pype: In our dreams, the fairies come to us with a smooth touch bringing us often the pearls of elucidation... hm... maybe they see what is Behind The Pe(a)rls. ];->

Digital Rights Management. Since it's usually not your (legal) rights to be managed, but the media distributor's "right" for maximum profit, a different interpretation is Digital Restrictions Management.

The stuff that disables you playing your newly acquired audio CD in your MP3 player, make a backup copy of your originals (since we all know that CD's never break), or takes away your legal right of passing a friend a copy of your music to listen in. (At least, in Germany that's my legal right - untill they recently made the EU version of the DMCA.

but beside that: we are mostly grown ups. I think, we can, besides the occasional sarcasm (];->), communicate without the need to use rude words or to flame around.

I've grown wary after more than one forum of "grown ups" exploded into my face on that matter.

this is something I understand... some guys claiming to be grown up canna stand a reasonable criticism and break out in tantrums in null point zero. Being not able to behave in a respectable fashion, they flame around... the follow-up side effect: the burnt one avoids the fire.

nullify wrote:I wouldn't say Linus "falls into the ranks with the DRM stuff," more accurately, he isn't putting any sort of discriminating "ban" on DRM. Linus wants to ensure that whoever uses and/or distributes Linux has the freedom to incorporate DRM if they wish, or leave it out if undesirable.

I think I must be misunderstanding something here. How could Linus ban DRM technology being added to the Linux kernel even if he wanted to? As I understand it, the freedoms the GPL offers are not revokable.

Was he talking about the possibility of adding DRM to his "official" Linus-blessed code tree?

Solar wrote:Linus, IMNSHO, quite frankly, and excuse me for flaming such a high ranking person, obviously lacks the understanding to grasp what this decision will lead to.

What do you suggest as an alternative? Do you believe people should abandon the ideals behind Free / Open Source software because somebody *might* use that software in a way the author disapproves of?

soap wrote: How could Linus ban DRM technology being added to the Linux kernel even if he wanted to?

Linus and a few selected others have the "final say" on what goes into the Linux kernel and what doesn't.

Was he talking about the possibility of adding DRM to his "official" Linus-blessed code tree?

Correct.

The GPL, for a project of the size and complexity of the Linux kernel, only works with a couple of strong helmsmen. That worked beautifully for quite some time now. (You will realize that neither the kernel, KDE, Gnome, Mozilla etc. allow every anybody to change the code base.)

Sure you could fork a kernel of your own. But don't expect anyone to take you for serious, or support you.

What do you suggest as an alternative? Do you believe people should abandon the ideals behind Free / Open Source software because somebody *might* use that software in a way the author disapproves of?

I'm not sure I understand that sentence of yours. What ideals do you think I am calling to abandon? Who is "someone", who is "the author"?

Sorry, I don't get it.

As for DRM, I think it's much too late for any "alternatives". The thing has been rolling for years, Microsoft is fully behind it (small wonder), Intel and AMD are in the boat, Linus won't oppose, RedHat and SuSE couldn't care less, and so that thingy is here to stay and enjoy us with increasing "benefits" in the next few years.

You remember the uproar when Intel equipped the Pentium III with serial numbers? This one is far, far worse, and you won't be able to switch it off in the BIOS...

Solar wrote: I'm not sure I understand that sentence of yours. What ideals do you think I am calling to abandon? Who is "someone", who is "the author"?

I (mis)interpreted your comment to mean you believe Linus should have restricted usage of Linux code in order to prevent DRM applications being developed with it.