Moving on ...

[no92]

Before reading: This has probably been discussed many times already, but I'd like to hear your opinion on the topic.

We all see and at least some will agree that the version of the forum software is ancient. I thought a little bit about this and came to the following conclusion:
1. We have to move away from phpBB. It's not good enough any more.
2. the OSdev forums have to be a thriving community, or it will die soon. The amount of action here has noticably decayed since I joined. I think this might be related to the old software and the low amount of discussions. It's basically a self-reinforcing downward spiral, in my opinion.

Solving these two problems is possible, but hard. We would have to adopt a new software, take Discourse as an example. Importing the old data itself isn't that much of a problem - there are tools for that. The real issues are: how do we get the database? I don't think that chase will give the tables to the mods for that. The masses of data might be a problem, too, even though I don't know how much it is.

That said, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the topic. I know that I probably won't happen, but if a lot of people would agree on that idea, we could maybe get chase to give us the tables we'd need and make this redirect to a newer site. Something like that already happened more than a decade back, it might be time to do it again.

Looking forward to your replies,
Leo

[iansjack]

If there has been a decline in activity, which I'm not convinced is true, I'm sure there are a number of reasons. I would doubt that the forum software is one of them. It may lack some of the bells and whistles that I see on other sites, but that's no bad thing. God help us if these forums ever reach the stage of badges, best answers, and up- and down-votes so beloved of some sites.

[sortie]

I can confirm that I, as a moderator (then doing a privilege escalation to admin), can backup the osdev forum database.

[Rusky]

While old forum software can be a security issue and maybe a small annoyance sometimes, I much prefer the simplicity of it to something like Discourse, which is an awful bloated JavaScript app rather than a simple set of server-generated static HTML pages.

[Brendan]

Hi,

We all see and at least some will agree that the version of the forum software is ancient. I thought a little bit about this and came to the following conclusion:
1. We have to move away from phpBB. It's not good enough any more.

I can still read other people's posts, and I can still create posts. In which way do you think phpBB isn't "good enough"?

2. the OSdev forums have to be a thriving community, or it will die soon.

Here's some statistics for "topics per year" (for the OS development forum alone):

• March 2014 to March 2015: 804 topics
  March 2013 to March 2014: 869 topics
  March 2012 to March 2013: 857 topics
  March 2011 to March 2012: 984 topics
  March 2010 to March 2011: 905 topics
  March 2009 to March 2010: 1106 topics
  March 2008 to March 2009: 1513 topics
  March 2007 to March 2008: 1685 topics
  March 2006 to March 2007: 1435 topics
  March 2005 to March 2006: 1437 topics
  March 2004 to March 2005: 1412 topics
  March 2003 to March 2004: 2081 topics
  March 2002 to March 2003: 1767 topics
  March 2002 to March 2003: 454 topics

Using this as a crude estimate, you can see that activity has dropped a tiny little bit in the last 5 years (and dropped much more significantly in the 5 years before that).

The amount of action here has noticably decayed since I joined.

I don't think it happened because you joined.

It's much more likely that the wiki has improved and people don't need to ask about as many things as before. I also think OS development has become harder due to more complicated hardware (e.g. things like UEFI and ACPI); and Windows, OSX and Linux have improved (causing less people to be dissatisfied with existing OSs); and due to a combination of these things less people are willing to write an OS.

We would have to adopt a new software, take Discourse as an example.

Switching to discourse would increase the number of posts for a short while (because of all the people complaining that discourse is crap); but after that the number of posts will significantly decrease. Note: This is exactly what happened when The Daily WTF switched from their old forums to discourse.


Cheers,

Brendan

[cmdrcoriander]

I can still read other people's posts, and I can still create posts. In which way do you think phpBB isn't "good enough"?

I haven't been using these forums for much more than a year (and rocking a solid like five posts a year at that) so I don't really have a lot of worthwhile input, but I do agree with this - phpBB is fine, I've used it across many internet forums over many years and it's never seemed like it was missing anything. What problems do you actually have that you think Discourse would solve?

[no92]

What problems do you actually have that you think Discourse would solve?

The most important things for me are the better look and the badges/reputation system, which could help newbies a lot. It's a modern JavaScript application, not just a clunky old HTML site. It's basically like StackOverflow, but as a forum with an ongoing discussion, not just answers. StackOverflow works good for me, so it seems to do for many others as well.

Another point I want to mention is that writing a post with phpBB annoys me - every time I want to preview it (to prevent unmatched tags etc.), it reloads the whole page. With other forum softwares, take Discourse as an example, they offer a live preview of what you've written. In the case of Discourse, it actually doesn't use bbcodes, but some Markdown modification, which is even simpler.

[eryjus]

The most important things for me are the better look and the badges/reputation system

I am completely uninterested in the gamification of OSDev.org.

[iansjack]

The most important things for me are the better look and the badges/reputation system

I am completely uninterested in the gamification of OSDev.org.

Absolutely. There are enough forums already with that sort of crap if you require the gratification of competition. That's the last thing we need here.

[kzinti]

I prefer phpBB to all that "Web 2.0" crap. Don't change anything.

[max]

I think that a reputation system can be good if it's done well, but it's hard to do it right and avoid "gamification" as said.
I can't speak for the moderators, but I don't miss any functionality in the current version, and I'm not sure what benefit we would have from some kind of switch.

[Rusky]

Markdown is a little nicer than BBCode, and live preview is a little nicer than reloading the page, but turning the whole site into "modern JavaScript application, not just a clunky old HTML site" is a huge step backwards in usability.

As far as I'm aware, there's no static html-based forum system that could be converted to from phpBB and still keep all the URLs intact, that also uses Markdown or provides live previews. Even if it did exist it sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

[eryjus]

I think that a reputation system can be good if it's done well, but it's hard to do it right and avoid "gamification" as said.
I can't speak for the moderators, but I don't miss any functionality in the current version, and I'm not sure what benefit we would have from some kind of switch.

Did you just earn your fourth star with this post??? Congratulations on improving your reputation!!

[max]

Did you just earn your fourth star with this post??? Congratulations on improving your reputation!!

Haha yes, I did, wohoo

[Antti]

I like this forum software as it currently is. Upgrading the forum software is likely to cause so much problems that it is not worth it. Besides, I guess I am getting too old because I dislike the current trend of Internet. Fortunately most of the people here seem to share this view so perhaps this community is safe.

A little story. A few months ago I got a laptop computer from Windows 95 era. It was not used since 1998 and it contained web pages in its local temporary cache. I started Internet Explorer in offline mode and browsed the web pages. I know there are "Wayback machines" online etc. but it felt quite nostalgic to use real hardware.

Anyway, it feels that improving that old Internet would be a good starting point. Improving the modern Internet will make it worse.