OSDev.org

I checked the wiki out but the information seems quite outdated. What are some of the best options when it comes to modern GPUs that could be made to support 2d and 3d acceleration?

For early development I suggest not to bother with graphics at all. Then when it comes to graphic some day, do it with bochs's BGA with software renderer, so you can test with emulator, 2D blt acceleration can be easily replaced when your system is stable. For 3D acceleration it's a myth.

The more modern the GPU, the more prohibitive it gets.

If you want target practice, get yourself a 3dfx Voodoo 1.

But if you want something modrrn with good documentation? Intel onboard.

bluemoon wrote:For early development I suggest not to bother with graphics at all. Then when it comes to graphic some day, do it with bochs's BGA with software renderer, so you can test with emulator, 2D blt acceleration can be easily replaced when your system is stable. For 3D acceleration it's a myth.

There supposedly exist open source drivers for Intel, AMD and Nvidia cards. Granted the open source drivers for AMD and Nvidia aren't up to snuff with the binaries, but they supposedly support at least decent acceleration on a fair number of graphics cards. Surely this makes it more than just a myth or hope in hell. How open are Intel's graphics processors? Especially the recent CPU integrated ones.

Combuster wrote:If you want target practice, get yourself a 3dfx Voodoo 1.

A Voodoo 1? Are you kidding me? I said modern GPU. I could scrounge through my parts bin and solder something together that had more modern graphics capabilities than a Voodoo 1.

If you want documentation and cross platform... then ATI/AMD since you'll never see an intel GPU with a non intel CPU in the real world. You'd just need a PCI/PCI-E bus to support an AMD or even Nvidia GPU on whichever CPU. Though the ATI is better documented.. Then again not many around here do cross platform it seems.

llvmpipe on an i7 is probably way faster than a voodoo 1 :/

cb88 wrote:llvmpipe on an i7 is probably way faster than a voodoo 1 :/

Yeah, no kidding. You could software render on your average phone processor faster than a voodoo 1. Talk about being completely obsolete.

lpcstr wrote:A Voodoo 1? Are you kidding me? I said modern GPU. I could scrounge through my parts bin and solder something together that had more modern graphics capabilities than a Voodoo 1.

If you don't understand what Combuster mean't... do you think you should be working on Graphics card Drivers?

lpcstr wrote:A Voodoo 1? Are you kidding me? I said modern GPU. I could scrounge through my parts bin and solder something together that had more modern graphics capabilities than a Voodoo 1.

Rule number eight of OSDev.org: Combuster knows what he's talking about.

The Voodoo cards are well-documented. An AMD Radeon HD 6850 is not. Take Combuster's advice. Grab yourself a cheap old PCI machine with a Pentium in it and a first generation Voodoo card from eBay, then start hacking away on that. It'll be more fun than trying to figure out where to /begin/ with a modern card.

Blacklight wrote:

lpcstr wrote:A Voodoo 1? Are you kidding me? I said modern GPU. I could scrounge through my parts bin and solder something together that had more modern graphics capabilities than a Voodoo 1.

Rule number eight of OSDev.org: Combuster knows what he's talking about.

The Voodoo cards are well-documented. An AMD Radeon HD 6850 is not. Take Combuster's advice. Grab yourself a cheap old PCI machine with a Pentium in it and a first generation Voodoo card from eBay, then start hacking away on that. It'll be more fun than trying to figure out where to /begin/ with a modern card.

Well I suppose the point is that it would be more useful to just use the frame buffer of a cheap PCIe graphics card and do all the rendering in software on a modern multicore, SIMD processor than it would be to dig out an old rust bucket with a voodoo in it.

If modern GPUs including Intel are really that forbidden then I suppose software rendering is the only real suggestion.

lpcstr wrote:How open are Intel's graphics processors? Especially the recent CPU integrated ones.

Excluding GMA600 (I think), which is actually a rebadged PowerVR, very, with full, clear documentation.

AMD have documentation, but it can be a bit behind the card releases, and is generally not quite as good quality (that said: I think we'll all take documentation over NVIDIA's telling you nothing any day)

lpcstr wrote:Well I suppose the point is that it would be more useful to just use the frame buffer of a cheap PCIe graphics card and do all the rendering in software on a modern multicore, SIMD processor than it would be to dig out an old rust bucket with a voodoo in it.

If modern GPUs including Intel are really that forbidden then I suppose software rendering is the only real suggestion.

The point Combuster is making is that by choosing to start with something recent, you're really jumping in at the deep end. Nigh on everything you would learn from working with the Voodoo 1 is applicable to more modern cards.

Think about it: To get that modern graphics card to do anything (beyond very simple 2D things, anyhow), you need to load a shader binary on to it!

So think again, you want to add acceleration support in your OS for design needs(and possibly improve it when implementing a software renderer driver), or for speed? do you ever need to care about speed now?

Owen wrote:

lpcstr wrote:How open are Intel's graphics processors? Especially the recent CPU integrated ones.

Excluding GMA600 (I think), which is actually a rebadged PowerVR, very, with full, clear documentation.

So, Intel HD Graphics 3000/4000 has open source drivers and the architecture is well documented? If that is the case, then it seems like that would be the best bet for getting anything remotely resembling decent modern day acceleration in an alternative OS.

In case it isn't obviously completely clear yet, don't try an nVidia GPU.

The open source nouveau driver only supports 2D acceleration.

Now that made me curious. The cheapest Sandy Bridge machine to take Intel HD Graphics for a spin...

I shopped around and newegg has an i5-2500, 2x2GB ram, motherboard, and power supply for about $340. Dell has PCs that cheap but they're all Celerons It's not really worth it right now but when a decent quad-core is less than $300 it will be.

nouveu supports 3D for some definition of usable on many cards ... so while it isn't great support it is there.

Also there is the BeOS 3d driver for older fixed function cards you could look at that has 3d support.