OSDev.org

hi guys ;
i just finish my boot sector and now i have 2 make the kernel but i dont know any thing about it and all toturials i get from net i cant understand it and now i want a micro kernel from any one made an os before but i want the one who give me this micro kernel to explain it to me or the micro kernel itself with full explained ...
i am sorry but i am so serious about this thing i have to show the dr.eng of our project any thing i made before 30 october 2005 ....
so please any one have any help to me give me that help and i'll not forget it to him .
bye
thanx guys
BOLA

hi,

Sorry, but if you want us to write your microkernel you're imho at the wrong place. Additionally, I don't think that's what your prof wants, is it? Why don't you just ask, what you don't understand - the low-level things, the overall microkernel thing or what? The people here can surely guide you through the development process, but it is imho your job to programm your micro-kernel.
Sorry if that sounds harsh/rude, but I'm not the best diplomat .

There are _many_ open-source microkernels on the net waiting to be found
The wiki is also a good place to start from (wiki - Microkernel)

One rule there is about so-called "homework questions": Don't answer them.

The task has been set so that you learn. Looking at other people's work will not teach you much, especially not if the tutorial material on the web was too much for you already: In source, the concepts and the understanding you are looking for are additionally obfuscated by language syntax and (possibly) bad coding styles.

My suggestion is: Don't go looking for source code, as source code is input for computers, not for humans. Better yet, don't go searching the web at all, except for literature suggestions (hint, hint: the thread you're looking for is a sticky one...) - too much stuff out there is misguided, half-finished, full of serious design flaws, or all of that.

The following quote from a newsgroup is a bit harsh, but it catches the spirit of "homework questions":

If I did your homework for you, then you might pass your class without learning how to write a program like this. Then you might graduate and get your degree without learning how to write a program like this. You might become a professional programmer without knowing how to write a program like this. Someday you might work on a project with me without knowing how to write a program like this. Then I would have to do you serious bodily harm.

Hi,

There are micro-kernels out there that were specifically written for educational purposes, where the source code should be fairly readable - for e.g. Minix (and the book it comes with) might be more than appropriate (although I've seen neither and assume it'd take most of the remaining 11 days to understand properly).

In any case, with only 11 days to write a kernel I'd be aiming for something simpler than DOS - a single tasking micro-kernel in real mode. You'd only need a memory manager, support for TSR's and defined interfaces between the kernel and other modules. Then (after the kernel is done) all you'd need is a "file system" module, and a "Command Line" module (with the BIOS used instead of writing device drivers).

Solar wrote:The following quote from a newsgroup is a bit harsh, but it catches the spirit of "homework questions":

I like "If I do your homework, can I have part of your degree?". It'd be nice if I could collect parts of degrees until I've built up a whole degree....


Cheers,

Brendan

If you're looking for easy-to-understand kernel source, i suggest you get a look at some of those "small kernels" we have on
the FAQ: they've been selected for their 'educationnal' purpose.

You have a science show to do about a kernel for oct. 31 ? if i may make a suggestion, do not try to have a kernel by that time. Or maybe just the simple "Hello World+" kernel which receives keystrokes and is able to reply to "clearscreen" "version" or "about" commands.

Take most of your time seeing what's to be done and make two posters to explain people what an OS kernel is, what it has to do, etc.

If you were to do the same about a car engine, you would maybe show a 2-step motor from a modelling package, not the V-8 of a racing car that you've crafted yourself from sharpened sticks, right ? you'd be then explaining the principles, how it works, and why it does so. no ?

i dont want any one 2 write it to me
but what i really want is a small kernel or a micro-kernel with explain for every instruction on it
i told u before that i am a small programmer i just know the c and vc++
and i know a lettel about asm
but that all doesnt help me to make as os so i want a full code of kernel to unerstand what it do .
if any one doesnt want to give me the kernel file ok
it doesnt matter but just tell me how can i start
i cant unerstand the all links u give me
i am egyptian so i cant understand English very well
and if u really want 2 help me just tell me what i really have 2 do , and plz dont tell me go to this link or download this toturial , etc....,
i really have got a lot of OS kernels from net but i found that they are not file its folders and a lotof files in it .
i got one file called micro_os-kernel.txt and i think it was write wirh c what can i do with it and how can i but it in my os after the bootsector .
plz i wait for ur replies
.
note : thanx guys for that hint , i know i was wrong to ask someone to wirte the os for me but i really doesnt mean that all i mean any one that have an explain to the kernel and every instruction on it

thanx
BOLA

With the help of Bran's Kernel Development tutorial and people from this forum, you might be able to produce a very simple single console "OS" that takes very simple commands like 'reboot' and 'help'.
Maybe you can expand it later, but in 11 days thats about all you can hope for..

new_user wrote: ...just tell me how can i start

Sorry, new_user, but it seems you haven't read any of the advice we gave...

• source is the least valuable documentation on something, and will probably confuse more than help;
• people pointed towards the example kernels in the FAQ;
• people pointed towards the Microkernel page in the FAQ.

i cant unerstand the all links u give me
i am egyptian so i cant understand English very well

Sorry to hear that, but I doubt you'll find much OS-related material online that's in Arab. Being able to understand English is one of the core skills for a software developer. And if you're that bad in English, you should refrain from using "u" and "2" and "plz", that's just silly even for native speakers.

And you might want to note that the majority of the "veterans" in here aren't native speakers either...

and if u really want 2 help me just tell me what i really have 2 do , and plz dont tell me go to this link or download this toturial , etc....,

Would you hold it a second and check how you're sounding here? You came here because - not wanting to sound arrogant - the people on this board have experience that you lack. Then, please, trust that we know what we're talking about.

Following the links we gave you is "what you really have 2 do".

i really have got a lot of OS kernels from net but i found that they are not file its folders and a lotof files in it .

What did you expect? That's the form any non-trivial software package comes in...

Sorry but if you cannot navigate a software project's file hierachy, you shouldn't tinker with operating systems, period.

i got one file called micro_os-kernel.txt and i think it was write wirh c what can i do with it and how can i but it in my os after the bootsector .
plz i wait for ur replies

Go to the FAQ, it's all in there.

>:(

Oh, and don't post the same question in two threads. (I deleted the other one.)

@new_user:

You will do yourself a favour and refrain from using command tone and grabbing the whole hand if one reaches you the small finger, OK?

Adjust your manners a bit.

Oh, and btw:

It took 4 and a half years for me to get my micro kernel os up to the state it is NOW, and that's still kinda incomplete - lacks debugging facilities, lacks a Network STack (on which I'm planning/working for five months now - TCP/IP illustrated helps a lot with the protocol stuff) - and you dare coming along and wanting to write(?!) one in 11 days - with sources of others (?!) COME ON! Stop lying in yer own knee and wake up, MAN. This leads to nowhere.

(@others: sorry for the shouting, I find it hard to keep temper down if someone strolls along and wants to collect other's merits for his own.)

Micro kernel in full 11 days?
Can you please explain to us what exactly are you expected to write in 11 days?

About things you would likely need:
Get a good understanding of assembler. (more than 11 days)
Understand interrupts and use some BOIS interrupts (more than 11 days)

You could however write a small assmebly code that prints some text on the screen , put it on the first sectore of a diskette and boot your computer to see you have something running, but thats FAR from being called a micro kernel in my opinion.

So please try to explain to us what is it exactly you are expected to get in 11 days.

@others : about the language new_user is using. When trying to directly translate middle eastern speaking to english it might sound "rude" or "impolite" to european / north american ears, becuase of the directness and the lack of "please", "would you", "could you" and other "softeners". But thats basically a matter of culture and not him meaning to sound demanding or rude.

The problem is not so much his grammar, but making excuses for his "bad English" while he's speaking 1337 2 u...

As for his assignment, I'd daresay he can forget it. It's 4 days left...

Hello,
Even though new_user's messages were not clear, and his request far from being acceptable, I would like to tell you that the "lack" of "softners" was only due to his skills in english, which he apologized for.
And it isn't at all due to a different culture. Arabic is -still- one of the richest languages in history.
I hope i'll participate in more technical threads than this one , as I am in os programming too
Thanks.

well, his deadline is over, and he hasn't been seen on MT after he made proper excuses (more than 10 days ago), so can we please stop shooting at the dead man ?

Solar:> No! NOOOOOO! He's still breathing, don't you see?
Take this! *bang*

-- new_user hit badly -50HP --

Solar:> And this! *bang*
-- new_user -50 HP again --

Pype:> Candy!! Help me stop Solar !
Solar:> Arrrr! *bang*
-- pype dodged - no damages --

*bang* *bang* *bang*
-- new_user looking like swiss cheese now --
...

Solar:> Bear with me while I reload...

Arrrr, arrr...

Erm...

OK, I'll take my pills. ;D