OSDev.org

forked out of "DHTML GUI"

Candy wrote:

Poseidon wrote: Why does everyone call it the 'start button' since Microsoft does so..

Got a better name?

Let me rephrase the question: Why does everyone consider a "start button" necessary since Microsoft did so?

I consider the concept flawed. Unfortunately, since Microsoft introduced it, and KDE / Gnome followed suit, we're stuck with it just as with many other things that we'd rather ditch today than tomorrow... :-\

But then, is there any better way to start up installed programs? even olden MacOS has had that concept hidden inside the apple-menue.

Having lots of starter-icons for applications hanging around the desktop (as I have even in windows)

Solar wrote:
Let me rephrase the question: Why does everyone consider a "start button" necessary since Microsoft did so?

I consider the concept flawed. Unfortunately, since Microsoft introduced it, and KDE / Gnome followed suit, we're stuck with it just as with many other things that we'd rather ditch today than tomorrow... :-\

it's not a pure Microsoft concept, lot of desktops standards are defined by CDE (Common Desktop Environnement) and buttons in left bottom corner are not the idea of microsoft (remember win 3.11 ) lot of GUI's before had a statusbar-like containing some buttons and menus, microsoft reduced all these to one button (what a good idea!!! :p)

at least, a "start menu" can be reached even using the odd-red-thing-in-the-middle-of-laptop-keyboard

my favorite window manager is fluxbox and it doesn't have a start button or a start menu at all :p ;D

the odd-red-thing-ion-the-middle-of-keyboard is the one thing in my life which gets into way most often. *rofl* Imagine typing with all ten fingers not looking onto the keyboard and suddenly you faintly touch that *%&$ odd-red-thing and your letters go anywhere else. *chuckle* that's fun to resolve sometimes.

beyond infinity wrote: But then, is there any better way to start up installed programs?

The problem is that, as usual, Microsoft took an otherwise sound concept and lumped too much together into its shell.

AmigaOS supported adding elements to its omnipresent menu bar, under "tools". Or you can put shortcuts on your desktop. All of this in addition of accessing the applications directly through the file browser.

But Microsoft added Windows Update, access to the Control Panel, Recent Documents, Search, Help, installing of new printers, and even the shutdown procedure to that button. Start \ Programs forwards you to a directory of shortcuts (C:\Documents and Settings\User\Start Menu), which is - lest it might actually be intuitive - merged with C:\Documents and Settings\AllUsers\Start Menu)...

But this is getting OT, isn't it?

regarding the OT thing: Oh, I can easily edit it away so to please the strict moderator. *rofl*

... ot discussion taken to priv messaging. *chuckle*

beyond infinity wrote: regarding the OT thing: Oh, I can easily edit it away so to please the strict moderator. *rofl*

... ot discussion taken to priv messaging. *chuckle*

Why? If it's clear code, let the end user deal with it. You got the most customizeable (it that a word?) possible, so give some 'templates' and let everybody fiddle with it to let it perform the way they like

Well, honnestly i don't like the "start" menu either. On most PCs, it quickly becomes bloated with sharewares, useless 'readme' files you won't read and uninstallers that are redundant with the control pannel "add/remove programs" ...

Keeping "tools" quickly accessible is a must feature, though (personnally, i tend to have terminal bound to ALT+F5, editor to ALT+F6, etc and i have "tuxedo" buttons for less omnipotent things (webbrowser, filemanager, calculator/spreadsheet/gnumeric, ...)

In addition to "tools" you may have programs that are related to the 'current task'. E.g. if i'm doing Java development, i might like to have an XML editor quickly available, while i certainly don't care when doing "Mrs TypeRight" or "Andrea Maxframes" things...

If i had to put one thing in the bottom of the screen, that would rather look like emacs "minibar", with the ability of typing keywords for documents retrieval, typing words for google searches, etc. But you might already have guessed that from the look of FutureShell

aladdin wrote: my favorite window manager is fluxbox and it doesn't have a start button or a start menu at all :p ;D

no start menu...what do you think that thing is that pops up when you left click anywhere on the desktop is?...

This was an idea I had

Edit Attachment too big

Link: http://www.javaop.com/uploads/guest/OptimaWishShell.PNG

So if i get your point correctly, what you suggest is an "free area" where user could drag applications he wants to have easy access to.

Yet, beside the 'start button' and 'window list', an interresting concept is the "application dock" (used in GnuStep, AfterStep and later MacOSX) where you have a single icon that will:
- start the application if the application is not launched yet
- collect iconified windows for that application (usually with a sub-menu when clicking, then)
- control running instances if that applies.
- inform about status change (e.g. if you got mail, your "launch mail/fetch-my-mail" icon animates).

IMHO you have a place where all system stuff goes and a place where your favored icons go then free window space to do whatever. Most people don't use ALL of the stuff in thier start button and this seemed like a practical way to organize it. If they want to load something but don't want to replace it on thier area for favored applications they can simply browse the filesystem with the file browser. Remember I am not working on a graphical user interface nor will I be for a long time.

IMHO, it should be a icon. in fact there should NOT be any kind of "start button". I'd love to see a desktop os where it was based around a "DESKTOP".

Cheers, DH.