OSDev.org

One of the things a lot of newcomers find is that regulars on specialized fora like this one tend to be a bit, ah, defensive, even hostile, regarding questions which have come up again and again. FAQ lists and the forum search tools exist for a reason: new members invariably have a lot of the same questions, and get the same answers. This leads to the regulars - who have to answer the same questions again and again - getting frustrated when someone comes in and starts asking questions without first reading the forum rules, using the search tool to find the previous threads on the topic, lurking to see what is going on around the message board, etc.

This is doubly irritating when the question is one which the forum rules, the associated resources like the wiki, and the forum-goers themselves have already stated are not appropriate questions for this forum, either because they are prerequisites that could be better learned elsewhere, or because they are outside of the scope of the forum entirely.

In this case, we've already said that there are better places to learn C and assembly - and that until you have extensive experience in both, you aren't going to be ready to work on this sort of project. And by 'extensive', I am not talking days or weeks or even months; I am not talking a semester course or a Learn (nothing of value about) C in 21 Days book; I am talking years, or even decades, of actual repeated use in multiple different capacities.

Now, you are not the first person to come here figuring you can learn this stuff as you go. There's one almost every week, in fact. Most of us, including myself, did the same thing years ago ourselves. We have written long pages in the wiki called things like Introduction, Required Knowledge, and - rather pointedly - Beginner Mistakes, which if you have read them, you know say EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE TELLING YOU NOW. We can't stop you from working on an OS today, nor prevent you from asking questions, but we do feel the need - and the obligation to you as an aspiring OS dev - to give you these warnings, so that you can stop, consider whether you are actually ready to take on a challenge of this magnitude (most of us, even the regulars, aren't, though we still try), and maybe convince you to slow down a little before you run off the cliff with the lemmings.

We want to help you with OS dev, but when it comes to learning the basics, there are better places to turn to, such as DaniWeb, The C Programming Board, C++ Reference, and Stack Overflow (on second thought, you probably can skip Sewage Overflow...). Even in places like those, you really want to lurk and get a feel for the local culture and netiquette before actually posting, if you can afford the time (and if you can't, posting a question and waiting for an answer is probably going to take too long anyway).

As harsh as it is, the ESR essay "How to Ask Questions The Smart Way" really does give excellent advice on this. I strongly recommend taking what Raymond says to heart before posting on any message board. Oh, and just because it bears repeating - this doesn't mean you should ask him for help unless it is something you know he has expertise in. It is appalling how often that warning, which is in both the essay itself and in most places that link to it, is ignored.

andrewthomson555 is that you?

dozniak wrote:andrewthomson555 is that you?

I doubt it, but this is an interesting post, in that is shows a cycle coming to completion: when AT555 first started posting, people (including you IIRC) asked him if he was NanoLarva's sock puppet.

Schol-R-LEA wrote:

dozniak wrote:andrewthomson555 is that you?

I doubt it, but this is an interesting post, in that is shows a cycle coming to completion: when AT555 first started posting, people (including you IIRC) asked him if he was NanoLarva's sock puppet.

I already lost track of all these endless reincarnations of stupidity.

matt11235 wrote:

john765 wrote:Also, I didn't ask for your stupid opinion. I asked how to do the thing for write_string() in C from http://wiki.osdev.org/Printing_to_Screen. You can't even tell me? Insane.

You just said "It didn't work!". As smart as iansjack is, I don't think that he has any telepathic abilities. Maybe if you weren't so rude and actually put some effort in yourself, you'd get some better help.

This is why we read the posts above...

dozniak wrote:andrewthomson555 is that you?

lol you're on drugs... or one of those people on the Internet who act nuts

john765 wrote:

matt11235 wrote:

john765 wrote:Also, I didn't ask for your stupid opinion. I asked how to do the thing for write_string() in C from http://wiki.osdev.org/Printing_to_Screen. You can't even tell me? Insane.

You just said "It didn't work!". As smart as iansjack is, I don't think that he has any telepathic abilities. Maybe if you weren't so rude and actually put some effort in yourself, you'd get some better help.

This is why we read the posts above...

dozniak wrote:andrewthomson555 is that you?

lol you're on drugs... or one of those people on the Internet who act nuts

Idk but I think it's a reference that you dont get (I dont get it either btw. that said, I'm quite new to osdev.org and I have surely missed stuff).

John765: Did you follow the Bare Bones tutorial and get a bootable ISO which, when you load it up using qemu, prints "Hello, kernel world!"?
If not, how are you invoking write_string() from the Printing to Screen page? Where are you putting this code?

There is an expectation here that you follow instructions very carefully and completely, this is a practical thing as much as a politeness thing as we can give you lots of information but it will not help you at all if you have made a typo or skipped a step in a process. Also you must learn basic debugging, because if you cannot give us a complete description of your problem, we can't even try to help you. Trust me, we do want to help you, even if it doesn't seem like it.

I'm pretty sure that this is not a previous poster, but it follows an all-time familiar pattern:

1 How can I learn C and assembler and write an OS?

2. Pointers are given​ to appropriate references and the Wiki.

3 I don't understand it, just tell me how to write an OS.

4 It's not that simple. First learn your programming language and practice on simple programs.

5 I know how to program in C and assembler. Just tell me how to write an OS.

6 More good advice.

7 It doesn't work! Why are you guys so unhelpful? Don't ask me to read stuff, it's too difficult. Just tell me!

8 Sigh.

9 I'm going to scream and scream until I'm sick!!!

10 Goodbye.

iansjack wrote:I'm pretty sure that this is not a previous poster, but it follows an all-time familiar pattern:
9 I'm going to scream and scream until I'm sick!!!

He can and he will. So there!

This got sidetracked a bit, didn't it? Let's answer the question as asked.

john765 wrote:Hi.
I want to learn C and Assembly (I will have Linux as my platform). Where are good tutorials?

Generally speaking, learning from online tutorials is discouraged for a variety of reasons (discussed here just recently), with the more structured, reviewed appraoch of a good book being considered the better choice.

For Assembly I would point you to the recommendations in the Wiki, with my personal favourite being The Art of Assembly Language.

As for your wish to do OS development, I kindly point you to the Wiki again, Beginner Mistakes -- A Hard Truth.

You see, it's all been said already, really.

eryjus wrote:

john765 wrote:I want to learn C and Assembly

john765 wrote:I know C and Assembly.

In just over 24 hours....

Sams promised C++ in 21 days, very close! Oh, no, they actually did do promise it in 24 hours as well!

Speaking of which, with C++ it's more like the other way around, "I know C++" and then "I want to learn C++". Sams' newer book is named more appropriately, tech yourself infinity in one hour a day, 8th edition. Seven editions didn't come close to infinity. Eight will do!

obiwac wrote:Idk but I think it's a reference that you dont get (I dont get it either btw. that said, I'm quite new to osdev.org and I have surely missed stuff).

Yes, it's something of an in-joke. andrewthompson555 is - or rather, was - the username of someone who acted a lot like this, and drew a lot of notoriety on the board for persisting in doing so.

The joke is about how often this sort of post occurs, and how similar (and repetitious) they often are. However, there are two things to take note of in this:

First, that (as I said earlier), when AT555 first started posting in October 2016, he was compared to an even earlier poster who was also noted for similar behavior, NunoLava1998 (whom I mockingly referred to as 'NanoLarva' in my earlier post), who had started here a few weeks earlier. I wasn't joking about this sort of thing happening all the time, and while I will admit that we are often less than gracious hosts to new members, it is hard not to get annoyed when it keeps happening. Nuno quit the forum and deactivated his account, but returned shortly afterward with and opened a new account under the username 'DixiumOS'. He cleaned up his act, at least a little, and he still shows up here from time to time.

Second, and far more importantly to you, John765, is that unlike Nuno, AT555 kept at it, and got more and more belligerent over the brief time he was posting, leading the mods to give him a time-out in the form of a (IIRC) 48 hour ban. He took offense at this, and signed in under a new username (a rules violation) to post several angry screeds at the mods and the forum in general. This earned him a permanent ban, and his subsequent attempts to use a Single-DOS attack against the site (not a DDOS, though he claimed he could do one and that he would if they didn't unban him) only solidified his position as the go-to example for these things.

Given his history of posting under sockpuppet accounts, it wasn't entirely implausible that you could have been him in disguise, though I am pretty sure that dosniak was just using that to take a cheap shot with a forum in-joke. You see similar comments in other fora all the time, even aimed at well-established users if they happen to say something that reminds someone of someone else. Variants include things like "Gee, Foo, you shouldn't let Bar post on your account like that" and "Hey, Blakeyrat, it looks like Swampy haxorred your account!".

You might find reading through Nuno and Andrew's post histories a helpful, if sobering, example of what not to do in this forum (or any other).

Schol-R-LEA wrote:

obiwac wrote:Idk but I think it's a reference that you dont get (I dont get it either btw. that said, I'm quite new to osdev.org and I have surely missed stuff).

Yes, it's something of an in-joke. andrewthompson555 is - or rather, was - the username of someone who acted a lot like this, and drew a lot of notoriety on the board for persisting in doing so.

The joke is about how often this sort of post occurs, and how similar (and repetitious) they often are. However, there are two things to take note of in this:

First, that (as I said earlier), when AT555 first started posting in October 2016, he was compared to an even earlier poster who was also noted for similar behavior, NunoLava1998 (whom I mockingly referred to as 'NanoLarva' in my earlier post), who had started here a few weeks earlier. I wasn't joking about this sort of thing happening all the time, and while I will admit that we are often less than gracious hosts to new members, it is hard not to get annoyed when it keeps happening. Nuno quit the forum and deactivated his account, but returned shortly afterward with and opened a new account under the username 'DixiumOS'. He cleaned up his act, at least a little, and he still shows up here from time to time.

Second, and far more importantly to you, John765, is that unlike Nuno, AT555 kept at it, and got more and more belligerent over the brief time he was posting, leading the mods to give him a time-out in the form of a (IIRC) 48 ban. He took offense at this, and signed in under a new username (a rules violation) to post angry screed at the mods and the forum in general. This earned him a permanent ban, and his subsequent attempts to use a Single-DOS attack against the site (not a DDOS, though he claimed he could do one and that he would if they didn't unban him) only solidified his position as the go-to example for these things.

Given his history of posting under sockpuppet accounts, it wasn't entirely implausible that you could have been him in disguise, though I am pretty sure that dosniak was just using that to take a cheap shot with a forum in-joke (you see similar comments in other fora all the time).

You might find reading through Nuno and Andrew's post histories a helpful, if sobering, example of what not to do in this forum (or any other).

You wasted your time talking about these idiots who have no life? I would watch TV more if I wanted to hear this. Some people are evil enough to actually do things.

Andrew and Nuno's life stories are worth reading? Sure, I'll read them! By the way, why would there be so many people similar? Let me guess. It's probably a beginner.

I do know C and Assembly.

By the way, can you answer my question about the write_string() function please? It's in printing text in protected mode. I tried it out but it won't work. The -fwritable-strings doesn't work.

DoS and DDoS attacks are simple these days. Many people do them. The proper word for it is stress. People hack more things than others expect, no matter if a website just has info about fish.

Did DixiumOS get banned?

john765 wrote:http://wiki.osdev.org/Printing_to_Screen seems hard. How do I do the parameter for write_string() function? In my main, do I do

Code: Select all

write_string(0x07, "Hello World!");

or not?

Short answer, yes.

However, you could have found that out by trial and error faster than it took to post here, and I am guessing you tried it yourself but has no success. I am guessing that the real question is more along the lines of, "Why didn't this work for me?"

If so, then we'd need more information on how you have things set up.

If not, then the question becomes, why didn't you test it first? I am not saying that you are lazy - my guess is that you didn't feel confident in doing it correctly, and wanted reassurance, which is understandable - but there is a point where asking for help becomes begging, and a point even further out where begging become help vampirism.

We really shouldn't be as brusque as we often are, I know. But as I said earlier, this is more due to the history of the board than anything you've done. You sort of got caught in the crossfire, I am afraid.

Schol-R-LEA wrote:

john765 wrote:http://wiki.osdev.org/Printing_to_Screen seems hard. How do I do the parameter for write_string() function? In my main, do I do

Code: Select all

write_string(0x07, "Hello World!");

or not?

Short answer, yes.

However, you could have found that out by trial and error faster than it took to post here, and I am guessing you tried it yourself but has no success. I am guessing that the real question is more along the lines of, "Why didn't this work for me?"

If so, then we'd need more information on how you have things set up.

If not, then the question becomes, why didn't you test it first? I am not saying that you are lazy - my guess is that you didn't feel confident in doing it correctly, and wanted reassurance, which is understandable - but there is a point where asking for help becomes begging, and a point even further out where begging become help vampirism.

We really shouldn't be as brusque as we often are, I know. But as I said earlier, this is more due to the history of the board than anything you've done. You sort of got caught in the crossfire, I am afraid.

It shows a blank screen. What's wrong with -fwritable-strings? I add it to my GCC parameters but shows an error.
Speaking of Andrew, I saw someone called AndrewRocks spamming the forum saying unban andrewthompson555 now.

This idiot is not gonna get unbanned if he/she acts this way. What about captcha?