Basic New OS hardware set

Dex · Post by **Dex** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:58 pm

I think it would be much more usefull if we got together and agreed on a base PC hardware spec. We should all try and get this spec, nothing fancy just the basics like AC97 sound, RTL8139 ethernet card etc.
Once we agree on the spec, we can design a logo to display on our OS web sites.
Eg: FOS certified.
We can try and get other groups to do the same, to be included, it need to be cheap, available all over the world, and have free Datasheets.

PS: We could start by find out what is the commonest hardware we all have.

Brynet-Inc · Post by **Brynet-Inc** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:50 pm

Dex wrote:I think it would be much more usefull if we got together and agreed on a base PC hardware spec. We should all try and get this spec, nothing fancy just the basics like AC97 sound, RTL8139 ethernet card etc.
Once we agree on the spec, we can design a logo to display on our OS web sites.
Eg: FOS certified.
We can try and get other groups to do the same, to be included, it need to be cheap, available all over the world, and have free Datasheets.

PS: We could start by find out what is the commonest hardware we all have.

You mean like make a list of standard/common devices and if someone meets each requirement they get on a "certified" list?

Sounds.. neat.. but

ces_mohab · Post by **ces_mohab** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:39 pm

Dex wrote:I think it would be much more usefull if we got together and agreed on a base PC hardware spec. We should all try and get this spec, nothing fancy just the basics like AC97 sound, RTL8139 ethernet card etc.
Once we agree on the spec, we can design a logo to display on our OS web sites.
Eg: FOS certified.
We can try and get other groups to do the same, to be included, it need to be cheap, available all over the world, and have free Datasheets.

PS: We could start by find out what is the commonest hardware we all have.

This would be great to have a common hardware to work on. we can choose some hardware which is well commented and write tutorials or may be open source drivers may be.

Candy · Post by **Candy** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:45 pm

Dex wrote:I think it would be much more usefull if we got together and agreed on a base PC hardware spec. We should all try and get this spec, nothing fancy just the basics like AC97 sound, RTL8139 ethernet card etc.
Once we agree on the spec, we can design a logo to display on our OS web sites.
Eg: FOS certified.
We can try and get other groups to do the same, to be included, it need to be cheap, available all over the world, and have free Datasheets.

PS: We could start by find out what is the commonest hardware we all have.

Sorry for nudging this out to a separate thread but I really wanted to reply and it would be hijacking a thread.

I'm quite much for this proposition, especially since it'll allow you to pick a computer that conforms to the spec and be sure that if it works, others might, and if it doesn't work, others won't either.

My stab at a suggestion:

- 500MHz processor with x86 instruction set support
- 64MB memory (of any type)
- RTL8139 network card
- AC97 soundcard
- IDE parallel-ata compatible harddisk
- UHCI or OHCI USB controller

These are the most prevalent standards I can find. For a future version:

- x86-64 compatible processor
- 256MB memory of any type
- RTL8139/8169 network card
- AC97 soundcard / Intel HDA soundcard
- IDE parallel-ata or SATA AHCI harddisk
- EHCI USB controller

We might need to get some consensus on video cards too, but I think that might be a bit icky.

Ready4Dis · Post by **Ready4Dis** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:03 pm

I don't get it, but why on earth would you want to do that? Everyone would spend so much time and effort developing for specific platforms, that when they finally do try it on another, it will not work because you had the target hardware in mind the entire time (even if only subliminaly). I prefer to try to run my OS on many hardware configs, that way I don't get hung-up on getting it working on just one. Seems counter productive, I mean, I understand the concept, everyone can share, and there is a standard so you know it'll work on your machine with your hardware, that's cool and all, but in that case, why not just use Bochs or Qemu, or Virtual PC, it's pretty much the same as having static hardware.

Brynet-Inc · Post by **Brynet-Inc** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:06 pm

Candy wrote:- 500MHz processor with x86 instruction set support.

Whats wrong with 330mhz/400mhz Pentium 2 systems?

Dex · Post by **Dex** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:02 pm

@ thanks Candy,
I already have PC's to for fill both now and future version of Candy suggestion .

Candy wrote: My stab at a suggestion:

- 500MHz processor with x86 instruction set support
- 64MB memory (of any type)
- RTL8139 network card
- AC97 soundcard
- IDE parallel-ata compatible harddisk
- UHCI or OHCI USB controller

So this spec would be fine by me.
@Ready4Dis, By having a basic FOS hardware standard, it gives you many things.
It means you can try many differant OS, If you can get linux and BeOS to take part, it will help Co to buy FOS (linux) friendly hardware (even if its only to get a better deal from M$ ).
And maybe to make governments buy FOS hardware. Only m$ can win has things stand now. most people do not know it, but more and more Hardware Co are using proprietary firmware, see here:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl ... /01/142251
Its only by put enough pressure on the hardware Co by only buying FOS friendly hardware.

Also why does this stop you TESTING your OS on any other hardware spec ?. It just means that there will be more info on make these drivers.

If this gets going, i can add code for a RTL8139 and AC97 driver's, as for graphic card maybe a intel ?.

Combuster · Post by **Combuster** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:30 pm

Stabbing back:
- Intel Pentium II/Celeron or later, AMD Athlon or later. I think stating a speed rating has nothing to with the capabilities of a processor, i'd rather say something in the style of with mmx, cmpxchg, Fast A20
- 64M+ memory, ok
- Video card supporting VBE 2.0+ and VGA Registers.
- Network card: all i have is onboard chips and 3com etherlinks... A Serial connection comes close to 100% coverage and null modems are cheaper than a new ethernet card.
- Sound: someone once said that AC97 was a range of incompatible devices? also, SB compatible, anyone?
- IDE harddisk and CD

side question: FOS = funky operating system or?

GLneo · Post by **GLneo** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:37 pm

it will be nice to see "FOS certified", rather than "built for windows"

Dex · Post by **Dex** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:56 pm

You can get ethernet cards for £8 in UK. as for "FOS" it just meant : Free Operating System
Free Operating System is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of free as in free speech, not as in free beer. ...
This sounds familiar

But the name is just a reference, it not cast in stone, we can change it.

PS: We need a logo, here a joke one to get started:
http://www.dex4u.com/images/inFOS.png
Note: I am no artist

m · Post by m » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:48 pm

Dex wrote: I think it would be much more usefull if we got together and agreed on a base PC hardware spec. We should all try and get this spec, nothing fancy just the basics like AC97 sound, RTL8139 ethernet card etc.
Once we agree on the spec, we can design a logo to display on our OS web sites.
Eg: FOS certified.
We can try and get other groups to do the same, to be included, it need to be cheap, available all over the world, and have free Datasheets.

PS: We could start by find out what is the commonest hardware we all have.

Everyone who has replied this topic wrote: ......

It sounds good indeed.Just something I've thought of.I noticed that you wrote "a base PC hardware spec".Will it include different levels/types of hardware set definitions for OSes orienting different aims/applications(or an OS under construction in different stages)?We may define advanced/complete ones,common ones and minimized ones as different versions.

There's a set of detailed hardware detection/diagnostic modules in my OS.But it really dosen't require much 'cause my OS itself doesn't need to use that much.(It's not finished yet.)

I'm not quite sure if I've really understood your idea.Anyway,it seems quite open and free.

Regards

JackScott · Post by **JackScott** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:14 pm

Would it be possible to have a common set of hardware, of which we could choose components out of?

If it was possible, I would appreciate the lost common denominator for CPU put at a Pentium w. MMX, since that's what I (and probably quite a few others) have. 500MHz is a lot for an OS testbed machine, something I'd much rather use as a file server.

Ready4Dis · Post by **Ready4Dis** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:44 am

Dex wrote:@Ready4Dis, By having a basic FOS hardware standard, it gives you many things.
It means you can try many differant OS, If you can get linux and BeOS to take part, it will help Co to buy FOS (linux) friendly hardware (even if its only to get a better deal from M$ ).
And maybe to make governments buy FOS hardware. Only m$ can win has things stand now. most people do not know it, but more and more Hardware Co are using proprietary firmware, see here:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl ... /01/142251
Its only by put enough pressure on the hardware Co by only buying FOS friendly hardware.

Also why does this stop you TESTING your OS on any other hardware spec ?. It just means that there will be more info on make these drivers.

If this gets going, i can add code for a RTL8139 and AC97 driver's, as for graphic card maybe a intel ?.

Why in the world would the government shell out cash for a 500mhz machine? My point is, hardware is always changing, nobody wants to be stuck on old hardware. Unless the 'standard' computer is updated each year, or you have more up to the date specs (obviously a 3.2ghz cpu will run just as well as the 500mhz given the same hardware, that isn't an issue). It won't stop you from testing it on other hardware, but I am willing to be money the majority of your focus would be the static hardware, because that is were you would start, and figure out what you wanted done on. For example, you would set up your network interface to play friendly with the RTL, then you decide to move to another machine that has a USB network card, and realize, all your code isn't portable, because you were worried about getting the RTL interface done. I just see it happening all to often (not everyone will fall into the trap mind you, but I know people will).

AndrewAPrice · Post by **AndrewAPrice** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:24 am

The 'certified' list should mean the operating system supports all VMware, Microsoft Virtual Machine, QEMU, and bochs hardware. The projects list should have a certified category, listing 'usable' operating systems. Then it gives new osdevers something to aim for.

A larger requirement list should be made, with a definition on 'usable' and hardware it needs to run on.

This concept still leaves the problem of OS'es designed for other architectures.

Candy · Post by **Candy** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:27 am

- processor with x86 instruction set support, with support for at least MMX and cmpxchg8b.
- 64MB memory (of any type)
- RTL8139 network card
- AC97 soundcard
- IDE parallel-ata compatible harddisk
- IDE parallel-ata compatible cdrom player
- UHCI or OHCI USB controller
- Video card supporting VBE 2.0+ and VGA Registers.
- 16450+ serial port (not count, type)

Revised a tad according to (mostly) Combuster's comments. I'm doubting on the sb stuff, especially since it's a kind of ancient standard. IIRC AC97 was fairly standard, at least, the Linux driver works with two instances of it that I have. Serial connection is nice for debugging and so on, but requiring it sounds shoddy. This is just for a computer on which it can normally run, so it should be mainly the interfaces normal day people use. That includes a network card and a video card, but not a serial cable (nowadays). Especially since serial cables are close to the price of a rtl8139 card nowadays. On the other hand, these types of computers (speed category) pretty much always have at least one serial port...

- x86-64 compatible processor
- 256MB memory of any type
- RTL8139/8169 network card
- AC97 soundcard / Intel HDA soundcard
- IDE parallel-ata or SATA AHCI harddisk
- IDE parallel-ata or SATA-AHCI dvdrom player
- EHCI USB controller
- VBE2 supporting video card

That's just a guess, any comments? I added the video card and cdrom player here.