a idea!
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Xenos
RE:a idea!
OSDFS would be great. I have written some suggestions to the wiki, look at cosFilesystems.
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DR
RE:a idea!
Watcom has come up with OpenWatcom compiler set, and it seems to be able to compile to lots of platforms (16-bits, 32-bits, you name it). I have some experience with DJGPP and C++ kernels (I'm currently stuck on memory management, but I got a good basic console driver which updates the cursor position LOL).
If you want help, I'm in for the idea
PS C++ sounds best for me: it's more modular, better structured and faster to code (although some find it more typing work). Plus the fact that you can pin down and solve bugs more easily.
If you want help, I'm in for the idea
PS C++ sounds best for me: it's more modular, better structured and faster to code (although some find it more typing work). Plus the fact that you can pin down and solve bugs more easily.
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carbonBased
RE:a idea!
Does OpenWatcom run under Linux, though?
I don't have a dos partition, and I rarely boot up into XP (about once every 3 months). I have M$ OSs for development... Linux is much better (especially for OSDev).
However, if it does run on Linux, I'm cool with that. That was my only objection
I don't have a dos partition, and I rarely boot up into XP (about once every 3 months). I have M$ OSs for development... Linux is much better (especially for OSDev).
However, if it does run on Linux, I'm cool with that. That was my only objection
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DR
RE:a idea!
I don't think it runs under linux. Therefore I'd rather use GCC, because GCC can be used to do the job under both µ$ windows (DJGPP + elf tools) and linux (plain gcc). Only problem I have is some trouble with understanding __asm__ __volatile__ (darn AT&T syntax).
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mikeleany
RE:a idea!
Whatever compiler and assembler is used, it might be worth it to have the compiler use the same assembly syntax as the assembler, even if it means modifying the compiler.
Also, it doesn't look like anyone's given this much thought, but what kind of license would be used? Personally, I would recommend a BSD-style license (wherever possible).
As a side note, I'm not sure if or how much I'll really participate in this project (because of time, and I have my own OS to develop), but I hope nobody minds a possible outsider intervening.
On the other hand, I might not mind helping to make a multiboot-compliant loader for it to use in place of GRUB (particularly since that would be useful for my own OS), but only if it had a BSD-style (or similar) license.
Also, it doesn't look like anyone's given this much thought, but what kind of license would be used? Personally, I would recommend a BSD-style license (wherever possible).
As a side note, I'm not sure if or how much I'll really participate in this project (because of time, and I have my own OS to develop), but I hope nobody minds a possible outsider intervening.
On the other hand, I might not mind helping to make a multiboot-compliant loader for it to use in place of GRUB (particularly since that would be useful for my own OS), but only if it had a BSD-style (or similar) license.
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flich
RE:a idea!
hm... i dont know really but all can be decided over time...
whos in on this project? e-mails please... so i can contact everyone and see what everyone can do...
whos going to support this project? who ever wants to post they support the project they can. but lets just start getting ideas together... okay? thats the first stage I think... ideas meaning: who does what, programming lang, assembler, ect... what ever it needs...
just post away
whos in on this project? e-mails please... so i can contact everyone and see what everyone can do...
whos going to support this project? who ever wants to post they support the project they can. but lets just start getting ideas together... okay? thats the first stage I think... ideas meaning: who does what, programming lang, assembler, ect... what ever it needs...
just post away
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Robert Lee
RE:a idea!
I'm not the smartest programmer around but I can help with the nitty gritty coding if anyone needs help or routines written. I'd love to take a shot at a Fat12 driver then a Fat16 driver. I'm not a C coder though. I mean, I can code in it if I have to, but I rarly do. As a result I'm not very good.
If GCC/NASM is chosen, I would need to be able to run them on Slackware (or other small) linux inside a Bochs emulation. This can make code sharing a pain due to the disk image inject/extract cycle. So that brings me to my questions:
How can I go about getting a nice slackware harddisk image for bochs with the bochs "cofiguration" line? Should I build one myself?
Does slackware support GCC, Nasm and the rest of the tools like bintools and LD and so on?
Does anyone know where I can get a Win2k-compatible commandline tool for manipulating a disk image for the linux filesystem (for slackware)? Or can I mount a FAT16 drive in slackware as a seperate disk image? In that case, does anyone know of a Win2k-compatible commandline tool for manipulating a disk image for a FAT12 partition? I'd use WinImage but its shareware and a GUI. I need something I can automate. I guess I could just write the tools for Win2k first but writting tools is not a good start.
My email address is [email protected]
I might be able to set up hosting. If that is the case, I can host the project. I can set up a CMS for the project which would be more appropriate for code-sharing. Let me know if this would be desirable as apposed to using the wiki here.
-Robert
If GCC/NASM is chosen, I would need to be able to run them on Slackware (or other small) linux inside a Bochs emulation. This can make code sharing a pain due to the disk image inject/extract cycle. So that brings me to my questions:
How can I go about getting a nice slackware harddisk image for bochs with the bochs "cofiguration" line? Should I build one myself?
Does slackware support GCC, Nasm and the rest of the tools like bintools and LD and so on?
Does anyone know where I can get a Win2k-compatible commandline tool for manipulating a disk image for the linux filesystem (for slackware)? Or can I mount a FAT16 drive in slackware as a seperate disk image? In that case, does anyone know of a Win2k-compatible commandline tool for manipulating a disk image for a FAT12 partition? I'd use WinImage but its shareware and a GUI. I need something I can automate. I guess I could just write the tools for Win2k first but writting tools is not a good start.
My email address is [email protected]
I might be able to set up hosting. If that is the case, I can host the project. I can set up a CMS for the project which would be more appropriate for code-sharing. Let me know if this would be desirable as apposed to using the wiki here.
-Robert
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carbonBased
RE:a idea!
slackware is linux, and linux supports gcc, nasm, binutils, etc... as does every major platform in existance. In fact, they're included in most distributions as the default development tools (aside from nasm, where gas is usually the default)
If we decide to use GCC and Nasm, you aren't confined to Linux, btw. In fact, if you're running 'doze (which you seem to be), you might be better off installing cygwin.
Linux can mount 'doze partitions and drives (although NTFS is only supported (through stable code) as read only).
If you're looking for tools to manipulate disk images from Win32 then, again, I'd recomend cygwin which will give you access to the standard Unix command line tools (one of which, is dd, which is what you want).
As for hosting, I can also help out in that respect. I've got unlimited bandwidth/space with php scripting, so I could probably implement a separate msg board, or something, if need be. Although, this msg board will probably do just fine. Perhaps we should start up an IRC channel as well?
For CVS, we can use sourceforge, no doubt. Might as well... makes the code easily accessible to everyone, through many download mirrors, etc.
Cheers,
Jeff
If we decide to use GCC and Nasm, you aren't confined to Linux, btw. In fact, if you're running 'doze (which you seem to be), you might be better off installing cygwin.
Linux can mount 'doze partitions and drives (although NTFS is only supported (through stable code) as read only).
If you're looking for tools to manipulate disk images from Win32 then, again, I'd recomend cygwin which will give you access to the standard Unix command line tools (one of which, is dd, which is what you want).
As for hosting, I can also help out in that respect. I've got unlimited bandwidth/space with php scripting, so I could probably implement a separate msg board, or something, if need be. Although, this msg board will probably do just fine. Perhaps we should start up an IRC channel as well?
For CVS, we can use sourceforge, no doubt. Might as well... makes the code easily accessible to everyone, through many download mirrors, etc.
Cheers,
Jeff
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flich
RE:a idea!
hmmm we will have to use something that can use windows and linux though... i am sorta in windows hell for me :/ sooo what ever suits you...
-Flich
-Flich
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DR
RE:a idea!
Wow
Community Operating System is really turning into serious here
Can DJGPP + NASM be used for development under windows? Works the same as GCC + NASM or am I wrong?
I'm willing to contribute in coding (ASM, C, C++) as much as my brain can handle.
DR
Community Operating System is really turning into serious here
Can DJGPP + NASM be used for development under windows? Works the same as GCC + NASM or am I wrong?
I'm willing to contribute in coding (ASM, C, C++) as much as my brain can handle.
DR
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carbonBased
RE:a idea!
Alright, well, I'll definitly offer my services... I work full-time, and have my own OS in development, so I'll prob'ly be a weekend contributor but I think I've got some decent skills to offer.
My specialty, before I got into the OSDev "market" was high-speed 2D graphics. I've also delved into the 3D world (although, entirely software based. The only hardware based 3D I've done has been through OpenGL). In any event, I'm sure this can come in handy later on in the project.
I'd like to think I have decent skills at designed software architecture, which I think is probably the most important part of operating system development. Hopefully we can flush out a unique, and _simple_ architecture for this OS which affords a good deal of extensibility as well.
How many here know UML? I think we'd be smart to model all our classes and relations in UML before actually coding. I know a lot of the younger generation would much rather delve into the code, but it's much more adventageous (sp?) to model it extensivly first. I've got a few UML tools on my system that I can use to build some decent models once we decide upon systems, etc.
Anyway... my "resume," so-to-speak:
Languagues:
asm (6+ yrs), c (10+ yrs), c++ (10+ yrs),
eiffel (2 yrs), java/jsp (5+ yrs), php (1 yr),
objective c (< 1 yr), xml/xsl (1 yr),
VB.Net + C#.NET (2 yrs),
Kylix/Delphi (1 yr), COBOL (2 yr - yuck!),
Also currently developing my own OO langauges (InCode)
DBase (dunno how relevant this is...):
mySql, MSSQL Server, Oracle
OSs:
Linux (9+ yrs), Win32/DOS (17+ yrs), QNX (2 yrs), BeOS (2 yrs)
Current developing my own OS (NDK)
OSDev (have done, and am fairly comfortable with):
multiboot
console I/O
keyboard I/O
gdt, ldt, idt
list based memory management (multiples of 4kb allocations)
virtual paging
tss based multitasking through timer interrupt
remapping pic, exceptions, etc
run-time linking rdoff2 modules into kernel
OSDev (things I haven't done but should be okay with, or am currently working on):
VM86
minimal libc
floppy I/O
dynamically expanding stack (ala KOS algorithm)
graphics/gui (VGA 0x13 and Vesa... possibly VGA 0x12)
IPC (haven't done, but have many ideas...)
Filesystems (have implemented my own, look forward to trying to implement an existing one)
Gravis Ultrasound Driver (have some working code, just need more API calls)
email address: jweeks at neuraldk dot org
website: http://www.neuraldk.org (soon to be updated with dynamic php, and more code)
but I think I've got some decent skills to offer.My specialty, before I got into the OSDev "market" was high-speed 2D graphics. I've also delved into the 3D world (although, entirely software based. The only hardware based 3D I've done has been through OpenGL). In any event, I'm sure this can come in handy later on in the project.
I'd like to think I have decent skills at designed software architecture, which I think is probably the most important part of operating system development. Hopefully we can flush out a unique, and _simple_ architecture for this OS which affords a good deal of extensibility as well.
How many here know UML? I think we'd be smart to model all our classes and relations in UML before actually coding. I know a lot of the younger generation would much rather delve into the code, but it's much more adventageous (sp?) to model it extensivly first. I've got a few UML tools on my system that I can use to build some decent models once we decide upon systems, etc.
Anyway... my "resume," so-to-speak:
Languagues:
asm (6+ yrs), c (10+ yrs), c++ (10+ yrs),
eiffel (2 yrs), java/jsp (5+ yrs), php (1 yr),
objective c (< 1 yr), xml/xsl (1 yr),
VB.Net + C#.NET (2 yrs),
Kylix/Delphi (1 yr), COBOL (2 yr - yuck!),
Also currently developing my own OO langauges (InCode)
DBase (dunno how relevant this is...):
mySql, MSSQL Server, Oracle
OSs:
Linux (9+ yrs), Win32/DOS (17+ yrs), QNX (2 yrs), BeOS (2 yrs)
Current developing my own OS (NDK)
OSDev (have done, and am fairly comfortable with):
multiboot
console I/O
keyboard I/O
gdt, ldt, idt
list based memory management (multiples of 4kb allocations)
virtual paging
tss based multitasking through timer interrupt
remapping pic, exceptions, etc
run-time linking rdoff2 modules into kernel
OSDev (things I haven't done but should be okay with, or am currently working on):
VM86
minimal libc
floppy I/O
dynamically expanding stack (ala KOS algorithm)
graphics/gui (VGA 0x13 and Vesa... possibly VGA 0x12)
IPC (haven't done, but have many ideas...)
Filesystems (have implemented my own, look forward to trying to implement an existing one)
Gravis Ultrasound Driver (have some working code, just need more API calls)
email address: jweeks at neuraldk dot org
website: http://www.neuraldk.org (soon to be updated with dynamic php, and more code)
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carbonBased
RE:a idea!
Yes, indeed.
That's why I'm suggesting GCC + Nasm/Gas.
GCC runs natively under Linux, Win32, DOS, QNX, BeOS, MaxOS, VMS, etc... whatever you through at it. And Nasm, as far as I know, will run under pretty much all of them as well (at least Linux, Win32, Dos, and QNX).
Those that want to use DJGPP may certainly do say (it's merely GCC ported to DOS). I'm simply suggesting cygwin might be a better choice (it gives you a more unix-like evironment, if you prefer it). Gygwin is also GCC, but ported to Win32.
In all honesty, the choice of compiler is _somewhat_ irrelevant anyway... if we program it correctly, any ansi C compiler will compile the source. This simply means no inline assembly; it'd all have to be external assembly. No biggie (and probably a better solution anyway).
However, I simply suggest standardizing on GCC, to eliminate any _possible_ conflicts that might occur. And, also, because it's one of, if not the, best compiler out there. Especially if we decide on C++... GCC (G++, rather) is the most standards compliant compiler you're gonna find (last I checked, anyway
)
Cheers,
Jeff
That's why I'm suggesting GCC + Nasm/Gas.
GCC runs natively under Linux, Win32, DOS, QNX, BeOS, MaxOS, VMS, etc... whatever you through at it. And Nasm, as far as I know, will run under pretty much all of them as well (at least Linux, Win32, Dos, and QNX).
Those that want to use DJGPP may certainly do say (it's merely GCC ported to DOS). I'm simply suggesting cygwin might be a better choice (it gives you a more unix-like evironment, if you prefer it). Gygwin is also GCC, but ported to Win32.
In all honesty, the choice of compiler is _somewhat_ irrelevant anyway... if we program it correctly, any ansi C compiler will compile the source. This simply means no inline assembly; it'd all have to be external assembly. No biggie (and probably a better solution anyway).
However, I simply suggest standardizing on GCC, to eliminate any _possible_ conflicts that might occur. And, also, because it's one of, if not the, best compiler out there. Especially if we decide on C++... GCC (G++, rather) is the most standards compliant compiler you're gonna find (last I checked, anyway
)Cheers,
Jeff
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DR
RE:a idea!
I know UML
"Resume":
Programming:
* C: 6 yrs
* C++: 4-5 yrs
* Java: 3 yrs
* Object Pascal: since Delphi 1
* VB.NET, C#: since last year, but pretty good at it
* ASM: i386 and Motorola 6802/68000 (from school)
Database:
* SQL Server
* MySQL
OS'es:
* Windows (primarily)
* Linux
OSDev:
* Microkernel OS
* Just starting with memory manager
Multimedia:
* Illustrator, Photoshop, ...
* Flash, Director, ...
Webdev:
* HTML / DHTML
* ASP.NET
* JavaScript/VBScript
* CSS
"Resume":
Programming:
* C: 6 yrs
* C++: 4-5 yrs
* Java: 3 yrs
* Object Pascal: since Delphi 1
* VB.NET, C#: since last year, but pretty good at it
* ASM: i386 and Motorola 6802/68000 (from school)
Database:
* SQL Server
* MySQL
OS'es:
* Windows (primarily)
* Linux
OSDev:
* Microkernel OS
* Just starting with memory manager
Multimedia:
* Illustrator, Photoshop, ...
* Flash, Director, ...
Webdev:
* HTML / DHTML
* ASP.NET
* JavaScript/VBScript
* CSS
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flich
RE:a idea!
so DR, carbon, and robert so far? any others? i will give 72 hours from 7:00 PM MST GMT -7 for people to sign up then we will start the work that sounds fair right?
Also what will we call this project? We can register it at sourceforge for downloads and stuff but we need a name before hand.
-Flich
that sounds fair right?Also what will we call this project? We can register it at sourceforge for downloads and stuff but we need a name before hand.
-Flich