Start Button ?

[wacco]

Heres a concept GUI I drew in Photoshop at home

http://www.javaop.com/uploads/guest/FutureGUI.gif

How often do you actually use your trash can? Then why is it so freaking big? Just to show that you can drag 'n' drop things in a trashcan? Why should it be on your desktop? Isn't a little trashcan-thingy in your explorer (which can be accessed as a map) enough?
I see that a lot: screen-clutter. "See! We support this!" And to make sure you /see/ it, they make it /big/ and right on your desktop so you /always see/ it. It's nice to know that the feature is available, but get it out of my workspace!
It's like putting your trashcan on your (physical) desk right next to your computer just to show it to everybody that you got one. Everybody has one, so put it next or under your desk. It's not a show-off, it's a feature.

Then, I fully agree with the icons & animations. The few people who are still actually using internet explorer have about the best example possible of how it's /not/ supposed to work. You load a page, view a different page simontaniously in front of that page, and as soon as the page is loaded it jumps straight in your face demanding focus. For a second, you lost your concentration. You need another second to actually figure out what the h*ll just happened, and only after that you pick up where you where, or start reading that page.
Same with text scrolling. To slow: feels like the system is not responsive, to fast: you loose where you where looking in the text. I think a simple and usefull solution to this would be as soon as you start scrolling some thin bars (say: ten or so, depending on window size) are immediately drawn across whatever you where reading (this is probably a bad idea with pictures) which scroll along. That way, you can scroll really fast without loosing the point you where reading since you instantly see between what two bars you where reading (or under which bar) and as soon as you stop scrolling, you can pick up from there without searching for the correct line.
Well... atleast it sounds like a good feature, not sure if some old guru's start complaining about clipping problems or something... but it's worth to try or optional turn on/off.

More later, have to get back to work.

[distantvoices]

I find icon animation in so far usefus, as it permits the brain to perceive: This is something special. I can click on it. It's an accessibility hint. I daresay, a simple hover effect or a slight change of the color does the trick.

Completely changing the shape of the icon is way overdone. That's no hint anymore that's irritating the user.

As for the reading/recognition of letters ... this depends on ppl, solar. Some need to *read* the word in order to assemble the letters to a word in the brain. Others just look at a word - even at a whole sentence and know immediately, what it means. (well, they are prone to overlook typing mistakes and sorta) So, I don't necessarily need an icon to recognize "mozilla" - any icon (not only old T Rex) does the trick actually. Well -- but you are right. The icon is associated easier with "browser" than the word. That's because for most of us, pictures are way more accessible - they resemble the way we tokenize words in the brain.

[Pype.Clicker]

I conceive Clicker's GUI as following:
- the workbench (shamelessly reusing the Amiga word because it clearly tells that's not a desktop) that is used as a "welcome" place where you can spawn new tasks
- one or more task areas. Each task (e.g. "debugging MyOS" or "writing my thesis") can be customized with its own set of preference (quickly atteignable tool/set of documents, etc. and running programs)
- the task editor that helps you creating new "tasks" from pre-existing patterns or to customize some tasks (e.g. "when typing my thesis, i don't want to be bothered by ICQ contacts, but i surely wants to have a visual warning if my thesis promoter sends me a mail).

While programs are normally bound to one task, tools (such as scratchpads, calculator, etc) can freely move accros tasks. You also can configure some tools to give you background visual confirmation of other tasks progression (e.g. while typing your thesis, you might have a small progress bar showing how DVD burning and kernel re-compilation progress).

[srg]

Workbench, desktop, no real difference to me. Why not floor? "I'm not going to have this in a window (although table (top) might be more approapreate) or just put it on the floor. In that case, wallpaper would be called, carpet? Mosaic?

hehe that's a point, when do you have windows, and wallpaper on a desktop or workbench in real life??!! The whole metaphore is a bit mixed up. Still, if the backdrop was called a wall, then it would all make sense.

srg

[Pype.Clicker]

http://rchi.raskincenter.org/aboutarchy ... iples.html

somehow nicely fits my mood ...

[bubach]

OT: I _really_ hate the trashcan! *shift+del*

[distantvoices]

the trash can comes in quite handy once you have deleted a file by err. Sometimes this happens to the most concentrated among us.

[Candy]

the trash can comes in quite handy once you have deleted a file by err. Sometimes this happens to the most concentrated among us.

Using the logic that I kind of accidentally do that and that I can't keep order, I just make a backup of files whenever I like, wherever I like. Last time I wanted the most up to date code for atlantisos (after not working on it for a while) I had to search over 50 backups.

But, I didn't lose a file!

[AR]

But, I didn't lose a file!

That depends on how you define loose , I personally would define lost as not being able to find it in the place I expected it to be (Which incidentally happens to be one of the most common problem people have with computers, they save a file somewhere, not caring what folder the save dialog is in and then can't find it later which is why all these Desktop Search tools are coming in).

[Solar]

The trashcan is another metaphor screwed up by UI designers (both Win and KDE, don't know about other systems). The requesters popped by file deletion are such a nuisance that most people I know configured the system not to use the trashcan at all.

A feature should never become a nuisance.

And the right thing to do would have been to provide an "Undo" in the file browser, instead of adding a Trashcan, with options to ask or not to ask, to delete or to move to trash... "undo" would have been in-line with virtually every other application, but UI designers have been so wrapped-up in the desktop metaphor that they didn't see that a computer is not a desktop.

[Pype.Clicker]

hehe ... i can remember the first typewriting program i used. They pushed the metaphor up to having a typewriter drawn at the bottom of the screen (which means that, as in a typewriter, you never see the last typed char unless you type one more char) and you had to use the joystick to file the document in one of the "drawer" and then in one of the "folders" like in ancient filing cabinets.

My personnal suggestion would be:
- you have immediate access to every recent thing
- you have immediate access to every frequent/favourite thing
- you have quick retrieval of anything else
- nothing never get lost.
- all operations can be undone.
- anything you typed is sacred.
- modifying a document doesn't loose the previous document's content.

Now, i have to wonder how that can cope with "i just asked to delete "Thesis" and "StarWarsEpisode3" and the system needs room. It should sacrifice StarWars and keep Thesis, but how is it going to know it ?

[Solar]

My approach to that, in Pro-POS times, was to provide an optional version control on certain directories (just like the "compressed directories" of Windows).

You don't want to keep everything for ever. You don't want compiler's object files. You don't want every keystroke of your thesis recorded back to the first character. (Yes I know, hard drive space is cheap, but come on...) You don't want those dirty little files you wiped explicitly to resurface later when your mother-in-law is looking.

But for certain things - your thesis, for example - you want to be able to "step back in time", like, get back a previously saved version without having to backup the version manually / script-driven after every "Save".

Being able to engage version control on the directory "Documents/Thesis" should cater for that.

Then again, as most things Pro-POS'ish, that idea never got proven. :-\

[Pype.Clicker]

My approach to that, in Pro-POS times, was to provide an optional version control on certain directories (just like the "compressed directories" of Windows).

Yes, you certainly wants control... but do you want directories.
Moreover, aren't more likely to need recovery of e-mail you start typing before you accidently hit ALT+F4 than the recovery of your thesis (which you have on 5 CDs scattered in 3 different physical places) ? That's where i mostly loose content nowadays: replies i start typing in forums, wikis, emails, etc.

You don't want every keystroke of your thesis recorded back to the first character. (Yes I know, hard drive space is cheap, but come on...)

Well of course not. However, you might wish to keep track of every typed character between two saves, no ? They can be discarded when you hit "SAVE", but should be kept prior that checkpoint.

You don't want those dirty little files you wiped explicitly to resurface later when your mother-in-law is looking.

In need for privacy, heh ? Or maybe just you *really* want to get rid of that spam for ch34Pp1llz.
- that spam (or whatever) is not "sacred" since you haven't typed it. Your thesis is and thus it will be gone until you explicitly (through some kind of "deletion pending checklist") tell it should be gone.
- depending of their 'level of importance', garbage will actually be collected when application is closed, when you're logging out, etc.

You don't want to keep everything for ever. You don't want compiler's object files.

Indeed. And therefore there should be a quick way to identify them as 'discardable' (that can be decided by the compiler itself: intermediate results are discardable, logs will be gone at logout, final result is has delcom=4. Sources you downloaded have delcom=5 until you touch them or remove the archive they come from).

But for certain things - your thesis, for example - you want to be able to "step back in time", like, get back a previously saved version without having to backup the version manually / script-driven after every "Save".

Being able to engage version control on the directory "Documents/Thesis" should cater for that.

true. I'd say your thesis has Delcom=2 by default (because you're typing it) and you can even credit it to Delcom=1 (paranoiac mode: use RAID, or Persistent Anonymous Peer-to-peer storage or whatever)

Then again, as most things Pro-POS'ish, that idea never got proven. :-\

If it was proved, we'd be using it, not talkin about it

[Crazed123]

I think there should simply be a screen in the beginning. No desktops or even 3D spaces. Just a screen, and events of that screen, like to a Delphi TForm. The user attaches scripts or applications starting or fills in predefined handlers for these events.

Just like that, user applications (or perhaps the windowing/widget system) should provide other events that can be hooked by the user. The *nix Guru can make things delete without hesitation, but the office worker asks for a request for certainty or even a security check.

Does Johnny Windoze want a taskbar? He can install a taskbar app and set it in a list of things to be run OnStartup and updated OnIdle. Or something like that.

Let the user customize their OWN darned GUI. All the OS should know is sections of pixels that may or may not be permitted to intersect, in which case Z-distance must be used to choose what gets rendered.

[AR]

My concept is similar but less "fiddily", the entire shell is replaceable and possibly scriptable, a graphical shell is everything beyond a black screen with a mouse cursor so you can have a "Windows"-like shell, Mac shell, KDE shell, console shell (desktop is a terminal, windows float over the terminal), etc.

Each shell would include "sub-themes" which are in the form of maybe libraries, scripts and/or XML descriptions. These decide the individual things like color schemes and control and window designs, etc.

There would be a library for shells which provides a generic way to access program lists, recent documents and so forth (for start menus and such)