x86 macOS clone with GUI?

[PeterX]

There is a lot of textual software which is open source and macOS. Like Mach+XNU and Darwin and many applications.
And locked Apple hardware isn't a problem since there are x86 ports.

Is there any effort somewhere, to provide an open source macOS clone with a GUI for x86?
Maybe with the X Window System?

Greetings
Peter

[bzt]

What do you mean? You can run Linux on MacOS machines, which is Open Source, it has X11, and there are huge number of MacOSX look-and-feel themes for GNOME, KDE etc. There's also a NextStep/OpenStep/Cocoa whatever-they-call-it-these-days runtime and library, named GNUStep (about 99% source compatible with ObjC and Apple FrrameWorks. There are only small differences, really small, but therefore not 100%). It runs Cocoa applications under Linux for example.

Could you be a little bit more specific maybe? What you mean by clone? Linux+X11+GNOME(with MacOSX theme)/WindowMaker+GNUStep running on an IMac does qualify?

Cheers,
bzt

[PeterX]

Yes, existing solutions involving Linux are cool and stable etc.

But my questions is about Mach/XNU and Darwin/PureDarwin and such, on an x86 PC.

Apple themselves have published a lot of open source software and people have PureDarwin and more, but I can't find a macOS (XNU, Darwin) with X or any other GUI solution on x86 PCs.

[PeterX]

OK, update: I managed to find XQuartz, X on OS X
https://github.com/XQuartz

It seems to be open source of different linceses. Unfortunately there aren't clear license texts in the main directory.

Greetings
Peter

[bzt]

But Macs are just x86 PCs In a nice and overpriced case, sure, but just PCs. In the inside they are no different to any other desktop computers. That's why you can run Linux on a Mac. All you need is a PCI table with Apple-specific IDs, and you're good to go (they have exactly the same chip, just with different Vendor/Product ID).

On the other way, running MacOSX on a non-Mac hardware, that's Hackintosh you're looking for. Not really Open Source, but neither are XNU and the kext drivers (yes, Apple participates in many FOSS projects, and they are using BSD user land under the hood, but they haven't released their actual kernel's code to the public, just some insignificant parts. Hackintosh uses those parts and provides some more Open Source kexts to make it work on different hardware.)

But if I understand you correctly, then it is GNUStep you meant and that's how far an Open Source reimplementation of MacOS goes (which does not include a kernel, neither XNU nor Linux, it is just the Framework).

Apple used to ship X11.app, but they don't any more. XQuartz is a fork of that abandoned project, but not really great. I'd suggest to install macports or homebrew instead (those are package managers for FOSS on MacOS), and then install Xorg with them. But frankly, I always had issues with X11 under Mac all the time (even when X11.app was shipped by Apple) and with macports installed Xorg too (but that was better). It was only SDL that provided a smooth multi-os support with decent integration. But SDL is low level, no widgets, no buttons, no file open panels etc. just a window and events.

Cheers,
bzt

[iansjack]

they haven't released their actual kernel's code to the public, just some insignificant parts.

Surely Darwin, which Apple has released as open source, is the kernel? It's hardly insignificant.

What they haven't released is all the ancillary stuff, like the Cocoa and Carbon frameworks, and the user interface, that make up the visible part of OS X. But they are no more the kernel than X11 is.

[bzt]

Surely Darwin, which Apple has released as open source, is the kernel? It's hardly insignificant.

It is, in a sense that you can't compile it and boot it. It is just a fraction of the required stuff. It would be a significant contribution to the Open Source world if you could compile and boot the OS from that source (even just a command line only mode).

What they haven't released is all the ancillary stuff, like the Cocoa and Carbon frameworks, and the user interface, that make up the visible part of OS X. But they are no more the kernel than X11 is.

Nor have they released source for all the other components, like all the used kext modules for example. Where is the display driver's or the USB roothub kernel module's source for example? Where is the source of the PrefPanes? Or the launchd's source?

If you take a look at their repo, you might have a feeling that they are Open Source (which was the intent of the Marketing Department). But if you look at it from a technical perspective, and actually try to compile the OS using that source, then you'll realize that you simply can't, the available source is nowhere near enough to do that.

Cheers,
bzt

[iansjack]

I still feel that you are talking about more than the kernel, which can be compiled and booted in text mode. That's good enough to be called a kernel as far as I'm concerned. Additional drivers, graphics subsytems, etc. are beyond the core kernel.

http://www.puredarwin.org

[PeterX]

I still feel that you are talking about more than the kernel, which can be compiled and booted in text mode. That's good enough to be called a kernel as far as I'm concerned. Additional drivers, graphics subsytems, etc. are beyond the core kernel.

http://www.puredarwin.org

Yes, thanks.

I was imagining a system consisting of the maOS kernel and additional GUI all in one system and open source.

But I fear the installation would be a nightmare for me, because there isn't any ready distribution (the kind you know in the Linux world). So the whole macOS thing is not as interesting for me as I thought in the beginning.

[iansjack]

There are certainly no useable OS X clones. If you need OS X the easiest solution is a Mac Mini.

[bzt]

I still feel that you are talking about more than the kernel, which can be compiled and booted in text mode. That's good enough to be called a kernel as far as I'm concerned. Additional drivers, graphics subsytems, etc. are beyond the core kernel.

Nope, I'm talking about a bootable kernel. That includes the kernel drivers (I don't care if it does not run GUI, but running system services with launchd is a must I think, even for a text-based system).

http://www.puredarwin.org

Thanks for this link, I did not know this project! Looks like they are working on exactly what I'm missing: "One current goal of this project is to provide a useful bootable IMG". Nice project, thanks for the link again!

Cheers,
bzt