Ain't that the truth.Roman wrote:I am amazed how patient local users are. I know a big forum where Nuno, Andrew, octacone and Lukand would get banned pretty quickly.
To be perfectly frank: NO.iansjack wrote:Allowing these people to post the same old mistakes and trivial questions over and over again severely impinges on the reputation of this website.
Which posts were deleted?iansjack wrote:Another problem is that any criticism of the moderators is immediately deleted in order to preserve their self-importance.
You can hide posts with the foes list.iansjack wrote:And that's why this forum is largely a waste of time nowadays.
I can't give you details as the posts no longer exists, but posts that I have made in the past criticising a moderator have disappeared without trace.zenzizenzicube wrote:Which posts were deleted?
I know what you mean, but I didn't learn those things by posting on forums. I read books.octacone wrote:Remember when you were younger and didn't even know what GDT was, remember when you were thinking what to put inside "LGDT" instruction.
If that happens, a smart person wouldn't reply, and an even smarter person might just reply with "see the answer you were already given <here>" (which is both helpful, but also serves to show the poster that they've asked the same question before and makes them feel a little guilty and makes it less likely they'll do the same again).iansjack wrote:That's incorrect, and it's a shame that a moderator can't see the problem.
What happens is that some people come here, ask simple questions, get simple answers - and some advice on further reading - go away and think about it and improve their knowledge.
Unfortunately there are a small number who ask simple questions, get simple answers - and some advice on further reading - go away and ignore that advice and come back with the same question time after time. Eventually this royally pisses off both those trying to help and others trying to learn.
No. You either don't understand how I deal with these people or don't agree with my methods. I try to use "patient guidance" (posts like this one and this one) that are designed to help someone become a better programmer/OS developer (over time). You only want me to attack or ban and aren't interested in helping beginners.iansjack wrote:A bigger problem is that there are moderators on this forum who fail to deal with those who aren't prepared to make any effort.
No. Offensive posts (that aren't constructive criticism) and/or off-topic posts are deleted regardless of who they're aimed at.iansjack wrote:Another problem is that any criticism of the moderators is immediately deleted in order to preserve their self-importance.
I began learning from books too; but that was a completely different century before the Internet became ubiquitous. Times change. People rarely use books now because the Internet is faster and cheaper and more convenient; and even when they do use books they're electronic copies downloaded from the Internet because someone helpful gave them a link.iansjack wrote:I know what you mean, but I didn't learn those things by posting on forums. I read books.octacone wrote:Remember when you were younger and didn't even know what GDT was, remember when you were thinking what to put inside "LGDT" instruction.
If someone is unwilling to read documentation, what is the best way to encourage them to become willing to read documentation? I can guarantee that calling them names will never work.hgoel wrote:Totally agreed with omarrx, most of us struggled with the problems until we got a complete dead end, devouring every bit of reading we could get to solve the problems we faced, and when we asked questions, we made sure to be as detailed as we could be. Instead now we have people who are clearly not ready yet, are unwilling to read documentation or expect us to do their debugging for them. This is bound to get annoying.
I agree (sort of). The ability to patiently comb through documentation is a prerequisite to successful OS development; but it's also a skill that needs to be learnt somewhere. These forums should be a place where people can learn skills that are needed for successful OS development (or at a minimum, a place where people are politely redirected to somewhere else that they can obtain skills that are needed for successful OS development); and not a place were people are abused and/or offended and/or taught to behave like trolls because some people don't want to bother teaching, helping or politely redirecting.hgoel wrote:I completely agree with you on name calling not actually encouraging someone to read documentation, I don't think I have done any name calling publicly. I've either ignored or attempted to provide references for people to continue learning. But as a result I do at minimum expect a developer to be driven to learn. The internet is no excuse for not doing one's own research. In fact it leaves even less of a reason to not do research. I'm of the opinion that the ability to patiently comb through documentation is a prerequisite to osdev, so I will definitely be annoyed at someone who doesn't demonstrate such an effort, I would be perfectly happy with a person who at least bothers to read the documentation, explains what they understood and still doesn't understand than a person who hasn't put forward such an effort. After all, if you want people to spend their time on you, you need to demonstrate that it's worth it. All said though, I agree that name calling doesn't do anything to fix this. It ought to be reserved to private channels.
Brendan wrote: Note: I'm not sure that it's entirely a skill. If a person knows where to look and knows that it's faster/easier/better to find the information themselves, then (by virtue of laziness) they'd find the information they want themselves. It's more about showing people where to look and/or showing them how to figure out where to look and/or showing them that it is faster/easier/better to find the information themselves. This is all mostly "knowledge" rather than "skill" (e.g. the knowledge of where to look). The "skill" component of it is being able to understand (and being familiar/comfortable with) technical writing, which isn't like "plain English" (due to a reliance on terminology and an amount of formality intended to minimise ambiguity), and people can need some help with that too (even if English is their native language).
